Chekhov Short Story Thread

[Janine]

It probably wouldn't matter to much to you, Janine, and the newer translation doesn't change the story a great deal.

Thanks, that is good to know. I am not all that particular about it, not if just reading it for pleasure.

It might make a big difference if you were reading a long book, like The Brothers Karamazov or Anna Karenina, both of which are among those Pevear and Volokhonsky have translated. The flow is a lot better in the newer translations and they retain more of the Russian. In many of the older translations of books, for example, Matei becomes Matthew, but in the Pevear and Volokhonsky translations he would remain Matei.

Oh gee, I guess then I am in trouble. Actually, I did read one older book of Anna K and I picked up a newer one, in my library free. Oh my gosh, I am in luck; just got over being lazy and went to get it from across the room; guess what? It is translated by those two you mention, Antiquarian. Good deal, huh - getting this novel free? It is just like new, too.
I may be in trouble with the Dostoyevsky - I bought those from Dover, when they had this big sale recently. I just went to check those, also, and most are translated by Constance Garnett. We had a discussion about her, not long ago on Lit Net; actually, I've liked her translations and others on the forum did too; so I guess I will be ok with those. She was married to Lawrence's editor.

But in a short story, and especially if you're not terribly into Chekhov, then I think the book you have is no doubt just fine.

Yes, I figured if we are using the online texts often, then who knows who translated those, right? I didn't think it that important, to me really.

DM, I do not think the Black Monk was necessarily a bad thing, either. He did help Kovrin cope with his emotional problems and the pressures placed on him, and he made Kovrin happy.

I am confused - wasn't the Black Monk the embodiment of his emotional problems; on the other hand he acted as the foil or distraction to Kovrin's reality. He was Kovrin's escape route; as a dream-world. In many ways, his own imagination was his escape route. I would say that was benign and harmless, if this Black Monk always appeared to him the same, benign and consistent; but, what if one day the Black Monk were to tell him to do some murderous act, or even kill himself? And that change could happen suddenly.

Interesting that in the Shakespeare play "Hamlet" Horatio says this same sort of thing to Hamlet, when Hamlet insists on pursuing his father's ghost, which at this time, Hamlet does not know whether it be apparation or truly the ghost, the embodiment of his actual father's soul.

Horatio tells Hamlet:

what if it tempt you to the flood, my lord,
Or the dreadful summit of the cliff
That beetles o'er his base into the sea,
And there assume some other horrible form,
Which might deprive your sovereignty of reason,
And draw you into madness? think of it:
The very place puts toys of desperation,
Without more motive, into every brain
That looks so many fathoms to the sea
And hears it roar beneath.

As we all know, Hamlet is lead into stages of temporary madness (always debatable). Thing do go totally wrong for him, ending in the tragedy. That too, is a matter of circumstances evolving over,time, chain reactions that all end badly.

I'm unclear, for now, if he was a product of Kovrin's blilliance in dealing with his madness or if he was a manifestation of illness. Probably something of both.

I feel it was the last. I always have since I first read this story. Just my own opinion. That is not to say his hallucination was not totally fascinating and creative. I have dreams while sleeping like this. But if they were to invade my daytime waking hours I would be definitely concerned.

[Dark Muse]

I am confused - wasn't the Black Monk the embodiment of his emotional problems; on the other hand he acted as the foil or distraction to Kovrin's reality. He was Kovrin's escape route; as a dream-world. In many ways, his own imagination was his escape route. I would say that was benign and harmless, if this Black Monk always appeared to him the same, benign and consistent; but, what if one day the Black Monk were to tell him to do some murderous act, or even kill himself? And that change could happen suddenly

Well when I look at a story I do not make up fake scenarios that do not occur within the story. The "what ifs" are really irrelevant because they are not within the context of the story, and there is no way to say that the Black Monk would tell him to do any such thing, so it really does not matter. It does not exist outside of the story, so I go by what is within the story. Not a hundred possibilities of things that could have happened.

Based upon the text within the story, he was happier during the time in which he had his visions of the monk, and it was after they began to "cure" him for it, that he grew depressed and unahppy, and if his illness was purely a physical one being TB, than he still would have died Monk or no Monk, but based on what is within the story, his death might have been happier than it was if he had been allowed to continue with his visions.

But ther is nothing within the story to suggest the Monk was suddenly going to tell him to hurt himself or anyone else.

[Dark Muse]

For me the question is: Was the Black Monk a product of Kovrin's madness or did Kovrin's subconscious create the Black Monk as a way of shielding him and helping him to deal with mental illness and emotional turmoil in a more peaceful way? If it was the latter, did that mean Kovrin was a genius?

I will have to read the story over again to contemplate those questions, though as of now, I am still not sure about his being a genuis, ambitous pehraps, but I am not sure about genius, as well I do not even know if I truly think he was mentally ill even if he was having visions.

Acutally that is another whole question really. Visisions and hallucinations are acutally two different things. I think many creative people do have "visions" though not always in a way that is completely crazy.

And the fact the Kovrin was aware that no one else could see the Monk, perhaps indicates he was not truly insane, as an insane person would not know the difference. But at the dinner Kovrin knew that Egor and Tania were unaware that he saw the monk sitting at the table with them.

A true mentally ill person would presume that everyone could see the monk.

But Kovrin knew the difference.

[Dark Muse]

But don't they also say that people who are mentally ill, never think they are "crazy" and do not call themselves "crazy" so if Kovrin is aware something strange is happening to him that is not natural, perhaps that is an indication that he is not trully mentally ill. He is just having an experince.

[Janine]

That's true. Mentally ill people do usually think that everyone sees the exact same thing they see. I'm not sure if they always do because I'm not that up in psychology. But at one point, Kovrin says he's going mad, doesn't he? I'm not sure. As I said, I have to read the story again myself.

Perhaps Kovrin wasn't mentally ill, but overburdened emotionally and the Black Monk was his way coping with stress. I just don't know at this point. I think the story is very ambiguous.

Quote by Dark Musr

But don't they also say that people who are mentally ill, never think they are "crazy" and do not call themselves "crazy" so if Kovrin is aware something strange is happening to him that is not natural, perhaps that is an indication that he is not trully mentally ill. He is just having an experince.

This is the thing; I do have first hand knowledge of this - hallucinations and people, actually accounting to me their individual experience(s); yes, they can know it is an hallucination. This is most definitely true. It is also true of those who hear voices; they can know they are not real. I have witnessed people experiencing, both. If too far removed from reality, then they can begin to believe these to be real. They are real to them, while experiencing them, but then they usually snap back to reality and they realise they were not real. These things are not easy things to live with daily. Mostly the individuals, I have known, have not wanted to live with these two things - they greatly disrrupted their lives; they are like hauntings. Some get help and some ended up in ruin; which is very sad. I have seen this first hand; this is why I have this particular opinion about this story. If indeed the story were of a 'supernatural' nature, would Chekhov be writing it? I did not think 'supernatural' his genre; I thought he was more of a realist.

[Janine]

I don't think it's meant to be a tale of the supernatural, Janine. I don't think the Black Monk was a ghost or supernatural being. I was just wondering if Kovrin was truly mentally ill and the Black Monk was a manifestation of that illness or if he was greatly mentally and emotionally stressed and the Black Monk was his way of dealing with his stress the way some little children will make up imaginary playmates. Some children to that frequently and they are just highly imaginative, and usually highly strung and very intelligent, but not ill.

But no, no. I don't think the Black Monk has anything to do with the supernatural.

Yes, I know that is very true and psychologists will tell you that is within their normal range of behavior - for children to do so; my son had several imaginary friends, and he was a very creative child. I never worried about them; I even thought, how funny they were sometimes. On the other hand, I did know a person who had hallucinations and would sort of wake up from them and did indeed reason that they were not real. One person had a mental disorder; the other had a physical disease and the hallucinations were born out of the drugs he had to take. He also knew they were not real.

Two things could be happening here; either Kovrin is having a mental breakdown; and there were previous signs and symptoms to that before-hand: such as sleeplessness, nervousness, anxiety, maybe even 'racing thoughts', delusions of 'grandeur'; now had these not been present and mentioned from the very beginning of the story, I might even consider his vision of the monk came on suddenly and wonder at it; even in a purely 'imaginative' or 'supernatural' manor. The second thing I think could be happening, is that all this is born out of this physical condition. Who is to say he doesn't have a brain tumor or other such thing? If it is TB, he could be sleepless and he could also have hallucinations from lack of sleep; that is documented and known to occur within a few days time with no sleep; sleep is vital to our mental states.
Whether it is one or the other - both entail some kind of degenerative condition, whether physically born or mentally born.

[Dark Muse]

I do not think the story is supernatural, but I think there is a difference between having visions and hallucinating. And I do not think that a person having a vision has to mean they are crazy.

[Janine]

Yes, true. He could be hallucinating or having visions because of his physical illness. But I'm sure at one point in the story he says he knows he's going mad. I don't know how much emphasis we should put on that, however. It's Kovrin's perception.

Antiquarian, I think it could be from the illness, but then again, does seem odd to me that right after he heard that story, about the girl hearing fantastic music, is when he had his first hallucination. It would seem that thought or suggestion, mentally prompted/stimulated his mind to imagine the Black Monk. He does say he is going mad; those are Kovrin's own words, not the narrator. True that it is Kovrin's perception, but then that says something to me; that deep down, even subconsicously, he realises this in not a true vision, but rather a mind alteration (hallucination) and he does truly believe he is going mad.

We do know he was nervous, not sleeping well, had too much energy even when he didn't sleep, etc. He says so. I do think he's a reliable narrator, with the exception of the vision of the Black Monk.

We do have to go by those facts in the story that are stated. I think the sleepless behavior is a common symptom and indication of someone with a mania. This I have read about online. He is hyper-active in a sense, or his brain is functioning, in a way, that is overactive; yet, he is exhausted at the same time. It seems he tried to sleep at night, but only spend sleepless nights, over and over again, and then would just fall asleep listening to music. I do get your point now, since I came back in here again and read your statement, Antiquarian, about his reliability; but I still do get the sense he is being truthful and accurate in this realisation that, indeed he is going mad. I think that is more an impression, that I get when I read the text, but let me read it again and make a better evaluation; see if my impression has changed any.

I'm not sure what to make of that now.

I wish Quark would post more text, so we could look at the story closer and see what we can make of all of this.

[Quark]

Sorry I couldn't be here today for the discussion. I was out for most of the day, and now I'm a little too exhausted to reply to everything yet.

I wish Quark would post more text, so we could look at the story closer and see what we can make of all of this.

Good idea. It seems like we've moved onto the Black Monk, so I'll post the Kovrin's first meeting with the strange apparition.

"I have been all day thinking of a legend," he said. "I don't remember whether I have read it somewhere or heard it, but it is a strange and almost grotesque legend. To begin with, it is somewhat obscure. A thousand years ago a monk, dressed in black, wandered about the desert, somewhere in Syria or Arabia. . . . Some miles from where he was, some fisherman saw another black monk, who was moving slowly over the surface of a lake. This second monk was a mirage. Now forget all the laws of optics, which the legend does not recognise, and listen to the rest. From that mirage there was cast another mirage, then from that other a third, so that the image of the black monk began to be repeated endlessly from one layer of the atmosphere to another. So that he was seen at one time in Africa, at another in Spain, then in Italy, then in the Far North. . . . Then he passed out of the atmosphere of the earth, and now he is wandering all over the universe, still never coming into conditions in which he might disappear. Possibly he may be seen now in Mars or in some star of the Southern Cross. But, my dear, the real point on which the whole legend hangs lies in the fact that, exactly a thousand years from the day when the monk walked in the desert, the mirage will return to the atmosphere of the earth again and will appear to men. And it seems that the thousand years is almost up. . . . According to the legend, we may look out for the black monk to-day or to-morrow."

"A queer mirage," said Tanya, who did not like the legend.

"But the most wonderful part of it all," laughed Kovrin, "is that I simply cannot recall where I got this legend from. Have I read it somewhere? Have I heard it? Or perhaps I dreamed of the black monk. I swear I don't remember. But the legend interests me. I have been thinking about it all day."

Letting Tanya go back to her visitors, he went out of the house, and, lost in meditation, walked by the flower-beds. The sun was already setting. The flowers, having just been watered, gave forth a damp, irritating fragrance. Indoors they began singing again, and in the distance the violin had the effect of a human voice. Kovrin, racking his brains to remember where he had read or heard the legend, turned slowly towards the park, and unconsciously went as far as the river. By a little path that ran along the steep bank, between the bare roots, he went down to the water, disturbed the peewits there and frightened two ducks. The last rays of the setting sun still threw light here and there on the gloomy pines, but it was quite dark on the surface of the river. Kovrin crossed to the other side by the narrow bridge. Before him lay a wide field covered with young rye not yet in blossom. There was no living habitation, no living soul in the distance, and it seemed as though the little path, if one went along it, would take one to the unknown, mysterious place where the sun had just gone down, and where the evening glow was flaming in immensity and splendour.

"How open, how free, how still it is here!" thought Kovrin, walking along the path. "And it feels as though all the world were watching me, hiding and waiting for me to understand it. . . ."

But then waves began running across the rye, and a light evening breeze softly touched his uncovered head. A minute later there was another gust of wind, but stronger -- the rye began rustling, and he heard behind him the hollow murmur of the pines. Kovrin stood still in amazement. From the horizon there rose up to the sky, like a whirlwind or a waterspout, a tall black column. Its outline was indistinct, but from the first instant it could be seen that it was not standing still, but moving with fearful rapidity, moving straight towards Kovrin, and the nearer it came the smaller and the more distinct it was. Kovrin moved aside into the rye to make way for it, and only just had time to do so.

A monk, dressed in black, with a grey head and black eyebrows, his arms crossed over his breast, floated by him. . . . His bare feet did not touch the earth. After he had floated twenty feet beyond him, he looked round at Kovrin, and nodded to him with a friendly but sly smile. But what a pale, fearfully pale, thin face! Beginning to grow larger again, he flew across the river, collided noiselessly with the clay bank and pines, and passing through them, vanished like smoke.

"Why, you see," muttered Kovrin, "there must be truth in the legend."

Without trying to explain to himself the strange apparition, glad that he had succeeded in seeing so near and so distinctly, not only the monk's black garments, but even his face and eyes, agreeably excited, he went back to the house.

[Janine]

of course we moved onto the Black Monk - that is the name of the story, Quark! He is quite a popular apparition - maybe we should give him a name.
Seriously, Quark, thanks for posting that and we can start discussing it and that part of the text. It is so beautifully written and interesting.

I have been slow in Lawrence, too. Going there now to post some text. On my way, I made a short detour to this thread. I just can't miss anything and saw your name and knew you made an appearance finally. Thanks again, for posting that part.

[Dark Muse]

"But the most wonderful part of it all," laughed Kovrin, "is that I simply cannot recall where I got this legend from. Have I read it somewhere? Have I heard it? Or perhaps I dreamed of the black monk. I swear I don't remember. But the legend interests me. I have been thinking about it all day."

Is the fact that he cannot recall where he first heard the legend, intended to indicate, that he had made it up all along from the beginning? Even if he does not realize that he is only making it up, but that it came from his own sub-conscious somewhere, and that is why he does not know where he heard it from?

Or does the mystery of the fact that there is an obscureness in its origins, make Kovrin more susceptible to being made a part of the legend by the appearance of the vision before him?

If he knew just where it had come from, pehraps that would have made it less intriguing.

I was also wondering if there was something significant in the legend itself, the way in which the monk is said to appear all over the world, and how its image will never leave the earth.

I found it interesting, the way it was described, was almost like a ripple upon the surface of water which just keeps spreading outward.

Letting Tanya go back to her visitors, he went out of the house, and, lost in meditation, walked by the flower-beds. The sun was already setting. The flowers, having just been watered, gave forth a damp, irritating fragrance. Indoors they began singing again, and in the distance the violin had the effect of a human voice. Kovrin, racking his brains to remember where he had read or heard the legend, turned slowly towards the park, and unconsciously went as far as the river. By a little path that ran along the steep bank, between the bare roots, he went down to the water, disturbed the peewits there and frightened two ducks. The last rays of the setting sun still threw light here and there on the gloomy pines, but it was quite dark on the surface of the river. Kovrin crossed to the other side by the narrow bridge. Before him lay a wide field covered with young rye not yet in blossom. There was no living habitation, no living soul in the distance, and it seemed as though the little path, if one went along it, would take one to the unknown, mysterious place where the sun had just gone down, and where the evening glow was flaming in immensity and splendour.

I think this imagery was great for setting up the conditions of his first vision of the monk. It sets up the perfect atmosphere for the appropriation to appear before him,

The imagery of the water, puts one in mind of a mirage

A monk, dressed in black, with a grey head and black eyebrows, his arms crossed over his breast, floated by him. . . . His bare feet did not touch the earth. After he had floated twenty feet beyond him, he looked round at Kovrin, and nodded to him with a friendly but sly smile. But what a pale, fearfully pale, thin face! Beginning to grow larger again, he flew across the river, collided noiselessly with the clay bank and pines, and passing through them, vanished like smoke.

I find it interesting that the idea of smoke and figures seeming to vannish into the smoke come up again, reflecting back to when the gardens were being smoked, and Egor went off into the smoke, and the way the workers were seen moving through the smoke.

[Janine]

Is the fact that he cannot recall where he first heard the legend, intended to indicate, that he had made it up all along from the beginning? Even if he does not realize that he is only making it up, but that it came from his own sub-conscious somewhere, and that is why he does not know where he heard it from?

DM,That is an interesting thought. I kind of thought about that part myself, that because he was so vague about how he knew it it must have sprung from his own subconscious or that is was indeed curious. Of course, it very well could have started with a nighttime sleeping dream, such as the one that Chekhov, himself, claimed he had. Therefore it would be mostly subconsious in origin.

Or does the mystery of the fact that there is an obscureness in its origins, make Kovrin more susceptible to being made a part of the legend by the appearance of the vision before him?

If he knew just where it had come from, pehaps that would have made it less intriguing.

That could be the case to Kovrin, at least; cause him to have more fascination connected with the image. He does seem intrigued, even to where he first heard it or experienced it. Mysteries are always more intriguing, right?

I was also wondering if there was something significant in the legend itself, the way in which the monk is said to appear all over the world, and how its image will never leave the earth.

I guess when we get to that part we should examine the description better, or is the text that Quark just posted past that point, since that is his first siting of the Black Monk hallucination/vision.

I found it interesting, the way it was described, was almost like a ripple upon the surface of water which just keeps spreading outward.

That is a good way to put it. From that moment on, a whole chain of events occur.

I think this imagery was great for setting up the conditions of his first vision of the monk. It sets up the perfect atmosphere for the appropriation to appear before him,

The imagery of the water, puts one in mind of a mirage

I find it interesting that the idea of smoke and figures seeming to vannish into the smoke come up again, reflecting back to when the gardens were being smoked, and Egor went off into the smoke, and the way the workers were seen moving through the smoke.

I agree - atmosphere and imagery is everything. Chekhov does a superb job here in doing so and describing the dubious and obscure images of the night. I love the smoke and fog and the shadowy way we perceive objects and people through them. Makes me think of some of the impressionist paintings. One I am thinking of in particular is by Monet is such a strange and awesome fog painting. It is one of my favorites!

I will answer Antiquarian's post soon. I just got a call the guy, who will put the AC units in the windows; will be here in 20 mins. I have to move a ton of things now. I will be back later. J

[Quark]

Remember those? Ho hum...I think you forgot them....
Anyway, here is what I quoted from that article:

Sorry Janine if I overlooked one of your posts. Unfortunately, I can't respond to everyone's posts. It would be tedious for me, and it would disrupt the flow of the conversation if I had to keep bringing up points made ten posts ago. I do try to answer everyone's questions and clear up uncertainties, but I can't comment on each individual post in the course of the discussion--particularly when I already agree with what they said. Instead, I just try to pick a few that represent the main idea of several posts, and then I write a response to just that post. In the post I'm writing write now, for example, I'm going to address Kovrin, the Black Monk, and the setting by selecting three posts and writing responses to them. I'm going to use your post on Kovrin because I think I you explained his character well, and even included a parallel which is quite accurate. Then, I'll quote to DM because she's been pretty observant of the details in the setting. Last, I want to talk about the Black Monk--it's origin and meaning--through one of Antiquarian's post since she's made a number of good points about the stories namesake.

Interesting that in the Shakespeare play "Hamlet" Horatio says this same sort of thing to Hamlet, when Hamlet insists on pursuing his father's ghost, which at this time, Hamlet does not know whether it be apparation or truly the ghost, the embodiment of his actual father's soul.

Horatio tells Hamlet:

As we all know, Hamlet is lead into stages of temporary madness (always debatable). Thing do go totally wrong for him, ending in the tragedy. That too, is a matter of circumstances evolving over,time, chain reactions that all end badly.

Thanks for posting this Janine because the Hamlet parallel is very helpful for understanding Kovrin's character. Both are approached by mysterious ghosts whose validity is in question. Each protagonist is then consumed by indecision. Hamlet is famous for this, of course. In the play he can always been seen wandering the stage saying "I've got to kill Claudius. Alright, I'm going to kill Claudius. Five minutes until I kill Claudius. I still need to kill Claudius." Tragically, he can never make up his mind to do it and he dies. Similarly, Kovrin knows he can either be a successful scholar or a good husband and friend, yet he fails to pick one option and he dies tragically. Both Hamlet and Kovrin engage our sympathies and both are more witty than the rubes around them. The main difference between the two is that, while Hamlet has just one objective, Kovrin has two. In "Hamlet" the audience knows what Hamlet should do. In "The Black Monk" the reader does not. Another key difference is that the descent into madness is more gradual for Kovrin. This comes from the different medium. "The Black Monk" is a short story which can afford to be slower and more subtle.

I found it interesting, the way it was described, was almost like a ripple upon the surface of water which just keeps spreading outward.

I think this imagery was great for setting up the conditions of his first vision of the monk. It sets up the perfect atmosphere for the appropriation to appear before him,

The imagery of the water, puts one in mind of a mirage

I find it interesting that the idea of smoke and figures seeming to vannish into the smoke come up again, reflecting back to when the gardens were being smoked, and Egor went off into the smoke, and the way the workers were seen moving through the smoke.

That's a good breakdown of this paragraph:

Letting Tanya go back to her visitors, he went out of the house, and, lost in meditation, walked by the flower-beds. The sun was already setting. The flowers, having just been watered, gave forth a damp, irritating fragrance. Indoors they began singing again, and in the distance the violin had the effect of a human voice. Kovrin, racking his brains to remember where he had read or heard the legend, turned slowly towards the park, and unconsciously went as far as the river. By a little path that ran along the steep bank, between the bare roots, he went down to the water, disturbed the peewits there and frightened two ducks. The last rays of the setting sun still threw light here and there on the gloomy pines, but it was quite dark on the surface of the river. Kovrin crossed to the other side by the narrow bridge. Before him lay a wide field covered with young rye not yet in blossom. There was no living habitation, no living soul in the distance, and it seemed as though the little path, if one went along it, would take one to the unknown, mysterious place where the sun had just gone down, and where the evening glow was flaming in immensity and splendour.

and this bit:

A monk, dressed in black, with a grey head and black eyebrows, his arms crossed over his breast, floated by him. . . . His bare feet did not touch the earth. After he had floated twenty feet beyond him, he looked round at Kovrin, and nodded to him with a friendly but sly smile. But what a pale, fearfully pale, thin face! Beginning to grow larger again, he flew across the river, collided noiselessly with the clay bank and pines, and passing through them, vanished like smoke.

To make this passage a little clearer, DM, I'll just add a few things to what you said. First, I think it's important to remember that his walk from the garden to the field represents not only his literal movement but also his mental transition. He's leaving the garden where his friends and eventual wife are and moving to a peopleless plain. This is what Kovrin will do toward the end of the story when he leaves his wife and Yegor to pursue the Black Monk. This part of the plot is foreshadowed in the setting here. Secondly, the field allures Kovrin just as the Black Monk will. Both have a mysterious beauty which draws the aging scholar.

I think DM is also right to compare the ghost to the smoke in Yegor's garden. This is another parallel drawn between the Black Monk and Yegor's horticultural obsession.

I don't think we're supposed to know if the legend is real or if Kovrin made it up. I'm inclined to think he made it up right now, but that's subject to change.

I was struck by the appearance of the monk's face. He's almost symbolic of death. It's almost as if, in seeing the Black Monk, Kovrin is seeing a premonition of his own death from TB.

Yes, we're not sure where the myth originates. It could be that the Monk story is a product of his subconscious. Or, it could be something that Kovrin picked up during his studies. We know that he reads assiduously. It's very possible that he read about it and simply doesn't remember where he first heard about it. It's left open to create more ambiguity. Plus, it makes the Monk seem even more omnipresent if we don't know who first came up with it. If Kovrin specified where he heard the story, then it would limit the phenomenon to just one person or source. By leaving it open ended, the Monk becomes more omnipresent by virtue of having a source which could be anywhere.

Antiquarian also made a good observation about the Black Monks appearance. The Monk appears aged and morbid looking which reminds us of the Black Monks effect. His idea of genius weakens the body and brings death closer.

[Janine]

I don't think we're supposed to know if the legend is real or if Kovrin made it up. I'm inclined to think he made it up right now, but that's subject to change.

I love the description of how the monk moves through the rye. I found it very poetic and beautifully written.

I was struck by the appearance of the monk's face. He's almost symbolic of death. It's almost as if, in seeing the Black Monk, Kovrin is seeing a premonition of his own death from TB.

Good points, Antiquarian, but now I think that Quark has answered them very well below. Quark, your post is great. No, no, - you misunderstood me; I did not mean you had to answer all my posts, every detail; that would take an eternity; you had just made a statement back a few posts, that you would go and answer one of my posts; I don't honestly know which one it is now, so don't worry about it. I like how you answered each one of us below - good idea.

This is so funny, I knew I wrote at the bottom of one of my posts about the AC guy coming to install my units (it is now about 200 here in my room! I can exaggerate like you, Q!)....he still did not arrive and if he does not come I will want to scream since I had to move a zillion books, etc. Well, when I went to look for that last post I thought it disappeared in the L thread - duh, that is because it was in this thread, not the L. Oh silly me! The two threads have become simultaneous...and half the time I don't know where I am anymore.

[Janine]

Don't feel too bad. LOL I'm not in charge of any thread at all and sometimes I feel that way. I forget passwords, don't do what I mean to do because I forgot, etc. My husband is going to ask if I called the dentist today and I forgot. LOL Well, he's home on Monday. He can do it then.

But you aren't alone.

Antiquarian, I do that all the time, too; either that or proscrastinate calling. I have even been known to forget I had an appointment; once I went to one the day before instead, another time a week late. They must really think I'm a wacho. That time I was embarrassed.

I wasn't upset today; besides I blamed it on the heat, I was dying of sweating by then. I thought it was rather hilarious that I kept looking at the L thread posts and thinking "what the heck, where did my post go to?" Here it was over here, residing with the Black Monk; hey maybe he put some kind of spell on me!

Now, I a happy to say the AC is running and cooling things off. I like windows open, but could not deal with that humidity; was making me physically ill.