Poetry Bookclub: Yeats's The Wild Swans at Coole

[Quark]

JBI recently suggested that we start a poetry bookclub, and the idea quickly drew interest. We threw out a few possible topics for conversation, but eventually settled on Yeats's collection of poems The Wild Swans at Coole. There are two version of this collection. The first was published in 1917 and included 23 poems and a play. Yeats later republished the collection without the play, and added 17 additional poems in 1919. JBI didn't say which version he meant, but I'm assuming it's the later 1919 edition. You can find it online here: http://www.bartleby.com/148/index1.html. We'll start with the first poem in the series which is the title poem "The Wild Swans at Coole," and work our way down the list. So, here's

"The Wild Swans at Coole"

THE TREES are in their autumn beauty,
The woodland paths are dry,
Under the October twilight the water
Mirrors a still sky;
Upon the brimming water among the stones 5
Are nine and fifty swans.

The nineteenth Autumn has come upon me
Since I first made my count;
I saw, before I had well finished,
All suddenly mount 10
And scatter wheeling in great broken rings
Upon their clamorous wings.

I have looked upon those brilliant creatures,
And now my heart is sore.
All’s changed since I, hearing at twilight, 15
The first time on this shore,
The bell-beat of their wings above my head,
Trod with a lighter tread.

Unwearied still, lover by lover,
They paddle in the cold, 20
Companionable streams or climb the air;
Their hearts have not grown old;
Passion or conquest, wander where they will,
Attend upon them still.

But now they drift on the still water 25
Mysterious, beautiful;
Among what rushes will they build,
By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away? 30

Hopefully, this will get the conversation going. I'll start commenting tomorrow when I have more time.

[JBI]

Any chance on moving this thread out of here? This spot is rather hidden, and I think it would be better with the other book clubs, or back in the poetry forum.

[Quark]

Any chance on moving this thread out of here? This spot is rather hidden, and I think it would be better with the other book clubs, or back in the poetry forum.

Do you mean in the forum book club section? I would think I would need permission from the admins to post on there. I could post it to the general poetry section, but it would probably get moved here anyway. If you're worried about the discussion's visibility, the easy way to make it noticed is to post a lot. Constantly active threads get more attention than ones with only limited participation. It seems like we already have several people interested, so we shouldn't have any problem with this. All the book discussions I'm in right now are posted under the author's sub-forum, and the conversations are each doing fine. In fact, the Lawrence and Chekhov short story threads have 1,600 and 480 posts, respectively. I would hardly say they were hidden. Leaving the Yeats thread here will not doom it to obscurity. Only lukewarm participation will do that.

[Dark Muse]

I do not normally read much of Yeats, but this paritcular poem I did find quite lovely, and the picture choosen to go with it, is beautiful, so I might check back in when the discussion gets started.

[DapperDrake]

All the book discussions I'm in right now are posted under the author's sub-forum, and the conversations are each doing fine. In fact, the Lawrence and Chekhov short story threads have 1,600 and 480 posts, respectively. I would hardly say they were hidden. .

I'd say they are pretty well hidden actually, I had no idea there are active discussions going on in the author sub-forums. It shouldn't matter though as people will see the original thread in the poetry forum and if they're interested will follow your link here... Like me

As for this first poem - I liked it, would we say its pessimistic?

[Virgil]

You can read all the poems from this book on the internet. Here: http://www.bartleby.com/148/index1.html. I'll shortly jump into the conversation. Let me read through the poems. How do we want to discuss them? One poem at a time or just free flow?

Edit: Oops, Quark I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had posted the web link already.

[Il Penseroso]

This is a great opener poem, I think. It stands alone quite well in its beauty and relative simplicity but takes a greater meaning as you read through the other poems (I've read through most of them, once).

[Dark Muse]

As for this first poem - I liked it, would we say its pessimistic?

Personally I would not call it pessimistic

[sofia82]

It is not pessimistic, it decribes all the beauties, mysteries. But there is a question what will happen to them (swans) in the future when he returns there, and where will they go?! It is a kind of recalling the past and looking into a vague future.

[Il Penseroso]

Whoops

[Quark]

Personally I would not call it pessimistic

It is not pessimistic, it decribes all the beauties, mysteries. But there is a question what will happen to them (swans) in the future when he returns there, and where will they go?! It is a kind of recalling the past and looking into a vague future.

I think Dark Muse is right about the mood of the poem, and sofia is right about the importance of time. First, the mood is quite pessimistic. The poet is looking out at these swans which symbolize his youthful passion, and he's seeing them leaving. Looking at the birds, he says

Their hearts have not grown old;
Passion or conquest, wander where they will,
Attend upon them still

They cheer him up, but eventually they will disperse:

Among what rushes will they build,
By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?

He's lamenting that he will lose, or already has lost, this passion that the birds represent. There is something beautiful about the state he's left in, though. The first stanza describes this autumn of his days as dignified and calm. So, perhaps the poem isn't completely pessimistic. But, it does have a melancholy theme.

Also important is time. The poem is set during twilight and autumn--both intermediate states between two opposite times (winter and summer, night and day). Those times are both considered periods of decline. One goes into the darkness of night and the other descends into the coldness of winter. This is similar to the poet who is in an intermediate phase between passionate youth and serene old age. He's descending into the colder, less fruitful time of his life, and the time of the poem reflects that.

How do we want to discuss them? One poem at a time or just free flow?

Edit: Oops, Quark I'm sorry. I didn't realize you had posted the web link already.

JBI wanted to do the poems individually which makes sense. On top of that, I suggest we discuss the poems in the order they were originally published in. That way everyone can see the order ahead of time, and I won't constantly have to tell people which poem we're doing next. As far as time limits go, I don't think we should have one. We should discuss as long as there's interest.

I'd say they are pretty well hidden actually, I had no idea there are active discussions going on in the author sub-forums. It shouldn't matter though as people will see the original thread in the poetry forum and if they're interested will follow your link here... Like me

I can try to post the next thread in the poetry section; but, if it's a book with just one author, they will probably move the thread to the author's sub-forum. I'll ask an admin later about this.

[Il Penseroso]

Also important is time. The poem is set during twilight and autumn--both intermediate states between two opposite times (winter and summer, night and day). Those times are both considered periods of decline. One goes into the darkness of night and the other descends into the coldness of winter. This is similar to the poet who is in an intermediate phase between passionate youth and serene old age. He's descending into the colder, less fruitful time of his life, and the time of the poem reflects that.

I agree this is key; the poet is lamenting seasons past, knowing that he is drawing near the time in which he will no longer be able to enjoy the swans as they are. I still think it's odd, considering the aging Yeats and the coupled swans (on "companionable streams") that he is reflecting on their disappearance rather than on his own demise directly. Having the birds symbolize his declining passions just doesn't quite solve it for me, at least on a literal level.

On a separate note, I think, the poem seems to end as a hinting remark by Yeats toward the younger, more passionate generation, concerning his place as a figure in the Irish literary movement. Sort of wondering who will step up to fill his shoes.

[Dark Muse]

I think Dark Muse is right about the mood of the poem, and sofia is right about the importance of time. First, the mood is quite pessimistic.

Hehe, I said that it was not pessimistic. I think that pessimistic is too strong a word. That is not the feeling that I got from the poem.

I agree it is about growing older and looking back upon the lost years of youth and passing of time. But I felt it was more perhaps melancholy or nostalgic, but it did not feel to be a truly negative view from my perspective.

[Quark]

I still think it's odd, considering the aging Yeats and the coupled swans (on "companionable streams") that he is reflecting on their disappearance rather than on his own demise directly. Having the birds symbolize his declining passions just doesn't quite solve it for me, at least on a literal level.

That's just my explanation. What do you think the birds do in the poem? How does the poet interpret them? How do you interpret them?

On a separate note, I think, the poem seems to end as a hinting remark by Yeats toward the younger, more passionate generation, concerning his place as a figure in the Irish literary movement. Sort of wondering who will step up to fill his shoes.

That's interesting--the swans as Yeats's waning poetic genius, and the speaker as Ireland's literary movement.

Hehe, I said that it was not pessimistic. I think that pessimistic is too strong a word. That is not the feeling that I got from the poem.

I agree it is about growing older and looking back upon the lost years of youth and passing of time. But I felt it was more perhaps melancholy or nostalgic, but it did not feel to be a truly negative view from my perspective.

Oh, sorry about that DM. That's what happens when I try to post before I run off somewhere.

Well, I guess I didn't agree with you, then. Although, now I do agree with your last post. Pessimistic is too strong of a word, or, at any rate, it's the wrong word. Pessimistic would mean the poem is hopeless and dejected, and I don't get that from the poem. I just wanted to say that the poem contemplates loss which is often a depressing theme, and that there is a note of sadness which reflects that.

[Virgil]

Pessimistic is the wrong word, but it has a saddness to it. How else can you read these lines:

I have looked upon those brilliant creatures,
And now my heart is sore.
All’s changed since I, hearing at twilight, 15
The first time on this shore,
The bell-beat of their wings above my head,
Trod with a lighter tread.

And then t ends on a real melancholy thought:

By what lake’s edge or pool
Delight men’s eyes, when I awake some day
To find they have flown away?