Valentine's Day Reading: A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens

[Janine]

Hey, Alexei. I hope your classes are going well. Your discussion of the French Revolution sounds interesting, and I like your comparison. Just as the Renaissance replaced the religious and intellectual dogma of the Middle Ages, the French Revolution tried to get rid of the monarchy and class divisions of 18th century France. Equality was one of the new virtues of this movement. Rosseau, one of the major writers associated with the French Revolution, believed that there is a "general will" which will naturally tend toward equality. In his view only the oppression of rulers or the corruption of society could divide people into classes. A reader of "A Tale of Two Cities" who is sympathetic to these ideas could view the Jacqueses as progress toward utopia. I think that reader would have to be quite a partisan to come to that conclusion, though. The way Dickens frames the Revolution and its Jacqueses is quite different. Remember that paragraph I quoted earlier. I think it shows how much Dickens sanctified individuality--at least his definition of it. Plus, philosophy aside, Dickens also goes to great lengths to individualize his characters. People sometimes criticize him for his love of caricature, but I interpret this more as Dickens' need to make his characters distinct. It was his way of humanizing his characters. He didn't want them to be a bunch of Jacqueses. Even though "A Tale of Two Cities" shows some compunction about the conditions of the lower class, I don't think that it welcomes the kind of equality we find after the Revolution. That doesn't mean we can't support equality or even see some positives in the Revolution. It just means that the novel itself doesn't lead us to those conclusions. Good post, though, Alexei. Hope you have fun out of the country.

Quark, I like what you have added here to Alexei's comments and observations. The two put together make for an interesting set of ideas. I think I agree on both and I always think the humorous characters were written to give more plausability and human characteristics to the story. I agree with that idea.

The Aeneid discussion is kind of at an ebb right now, but I think/expect/hope Virgil will start it up again soon.

I am sure he will continue with the Aeneid discussion. He loves that thread and that book. He just got sidetracked this month with personal concerns, his mother, job, and trip out to Ohio. He is very dedicated to that thread; just give him time.

The best thread on LitNet, the Chekhov short story discussion, does a story every month.

The 'best' thread???A hummmmm....what say, Quark? I think the best thread has been the 'Lawrence Short Story' thread - remember we reached over 1000 posts in under a year. But if we continue to work hard on the Chekhov thread, it might equal it someday , at least in response and participation. I am liking Chekhov more and more. In fact, I just downloaded the first CD in my computer and I am listening to all the stories again. I really enjoy them, the more I hear them. They are so entertaining and thought-provoking, and this time around I picked up on some new things to point out about "Oh! The Public". Alexei, we have been doing two stories a month but then there were the months we did do only one, since it was much longer. Quark, wait till Alexei sees your array of emoticons to describe the story....oh my gosh....Quark was having a silly moment, A. and being quite creative, if you think in those terms....or was it taking short-cuts, Q?

Right now we're finishing up one called "Oh! The Public." Next month (April 1st) we'll start doing another one. I keep changing my mind on what story we should do, though. Rest assured it will be a good one, but I'm still not sure which to do. I'll know by next week. You should check it out. We're here at: http://www.online-literature.com/for...=17728&page=12

Quark, can you email me about the selection - can we collaborate a bit? I have been reading so many of the stories, you mentioned. I read "The Student" and liked it very much and I thought the story "A Story Without a Title" was great. There are others I like, too. I emailed you in here (PM) but you did not respond...*grrrr*.... and also, you did not answer my post questions on the topic. I need to know what you have in-mind for next month, so I can search for the story in the library or online. I am going there tonight. I like to be prepared ahead. I would rather do two shorter stories, like we did this month; plus some of the younger students can handle this right now with exam time coming up. I don't have the time this coming month for a long involved story. I don't feel well enough either to tackle one of those; not right now.

Are you still sick, Janine? That must be a horrid flu/cold. Feel better, obviously.

Yes, actually I still am kind of sick, dragging. I have been forcing myself to go out and do minimal things around the house, but I tire so easily and sleep badly. This flu/cold was/is horrid!

The Lawrence thread is our model over there. I would be quite happy if we could get the same kind of participation over there as we do in the Lawrence thread.

Glad it is your model and I think you can learn much from our format or attempt at format. I do think we can build up the Chekhov and noticed that some of my avid Lawrence people are becoming quite interesting. Who knows - we might lose them to Chekhov in the end. - that is mixed emotions or mixed emoticons!

Simpler? I prefer the word approachable. They're short--even for short stories. And, they don't require a lot of added explanation. I don't think that makes them simple, though. We just read "The Lady with the Dog" last time. How can you say that one is simple? One could write (and people have written) an entire article just on the ambiguities in that story. That's not to mention the subtlety of characterization and the extent of the symbolism. It was hardly simple. These last two have been a little simple, I guess, but how can they not be? They're two pages long. I'll let this slide since you're still convalescent, but c'mon. Simple?

"Simplier" was not the right word for me to use. I think the reading of them is simplier,but the actually discussion is not. I was referring more to the very short,short stories we have done last month. By the way, Quark, get yourself over there and answer my thread, will you? ...oh, and my PM message...

[Alexei]

Alexei, it is ok. I can well understand. School must come first. I commend you on all the participation you have achieved on Lit Net. I can't believe you can do so much, but then again, you are that rapid reader, I envy... I have been lagging somewhat lately anyway. I am still not feeling so very well; I seem not to be able to fully shake off this cold I have had the last month or so. I am in super-slow mode so you must put up with me as well - that applies to all of you. I have not abandoned this thread, just put it on hold for now.

Janine, this flu is awful, I think it has been more than three weeks since you caught it

I can well understand that. Perhaps we can delay it a month, if you would be more available in May, instead of April. What do you think? And also, Manolia, could you hold off for another month; would you be awfully disappointed? I feel kind of pressured right now if we begin in April. There is so much going on in my family presently to prepare for the arrival of my grandchild. Also, I feel really tired out from this horrid flu/cold lingering and the damp/cold/windy weather we have been having here. I wish 'spring' would arrive soon, but it feels more like December here.

I am going to be out of the discussion for the end of April or the beginning of may, so don't think about it, I will just skip part of it or I will take a week to read the posts Still I don't think I will manage not to take any part of it Don't better moving it because of me.

I did not even try to enter it. I have not read the book, long poem. I seem to have trouble comprehending long epic poems such as the Aeneid. Did you read it already, Alexei? I did look in on several posts and pages to see what was being written. It was quite interesting but I felt too lost to participate, plus I had enough to handle on this forum at that time. We all do have to make selections and choices and as you say, you can always pursue it later on your own.

I've tried reading it a few years ago, but I didn't have the time and I didn't like the translation. The truth is I want to give it a try in Latin and I thought it could be useful for the discussion, but since I've missed the beginning of the thread and I have a lot to do with the trip coming, I will leave it for the next time.

The next two shorter Chekhov stories will begin the first of the next month I believe. Usually, Quark, will post something on the first story. I like to think I have helped him, to model the presentation after the Lawrence thread. I try also to post some photo or photos to get everyone interested. Quark is now participating in the Lawrence short story thread as well. We arranged it that way - I participate in his thread and he participates ours. It would be utterly great if you were to join us in the Chekhov thread. The stories are shorter and somewhat simplier than the Lawrence ones. You could fit them in more easily I would imagine. Hope to see you over there.

I've read some of his short stories for my classes this year and I like them. In fact I wanted to continue the reading, but the only copy of his works I managed to find was a Russian one and I was too lazy to give it a try. Still, you've managed to get me even more interested so may be I will try this time

I want to write a lot more, but I am short of time, so I will finish it tomorrow. I've read the two following post, but I will write my comments later.

[Janine]

Janine, this flu is awful, I think it has been more than three weeks since you caught it

It is a tough one. My brother-in-law told me his daughter-in-law caught it back, 3 times this year. I just feel I have not ever gotten thoroughly rid of it. One day I am better and then next I am all congested again. It just keeps lingering on. I go to my specialist tomorrow for IBS (another thing that plagues me), so I will ask him about the cold, too.

I am going to be out of the discussion for the end of April or the beginning of may, so don't think about it, I will just skip part of it or I will take a week to read the posts Still I don't think I will manage not to take any part of it Don't better moving it because of me.

No problem at all, Alexei. I think manolia is probably real busy right now, too. I know Quark is busy, with the two short story threads; think he is in the Aeneid discussion, too. Let us just agree to keep this thread open indefinitely, maybe till eternity Anyway, I forsee a busy month ahead, so I will have to put this and other things on hold. I too might post now and then, but can't promise big things at this busy time.

I've tried reading it a few years ago, but I didn't have the time and I didn't like the translation. The truth is I want to give it a try in Latin and I thought it could be useful for the discussion, but since I've missed the beginning of the thread and I have a lot to do with the trip coming, I will leave it for the next time.

Good for you - with the goal of reading it in Latin! Someday you will get to it; what is the rush, right? You have tons of time, being young. I felt too overwhelmed when I saw the length of it. I am sure it is a great work, but one that was not on my priority list. At my age, one needs a realistic list. I still have too many books to read and I read so slowly; thoroughly, but slowly.

I've read some of his short stories for my classes this year and I like them. In fact I wanted to continue the reading, but the only copy of his works I managed to find was a Russian one and I was too lazy to give it a try. Still, you've managed to get me even more interested so may be I will try this time

Oh, good Alexei; glad they interest you. Quark will like to hear of your interest, too. I told him I would try recruiting people; I think I am good at that. Anyway, so far I haven't a book of my own of the Chekhov short stories. Occasionally, I take one from the public library, but so far we only read one of the stories that was in that book, so it is quite limited. Mostly, I have copied the ones off this site, and printed them out, since they have been quite short this month, and will probably continue that way - with 2 stories a month. At least, I hope we continue in that way, so I don't feel overwhelmed.

I want to write a lot more, but I am short of time, so I will finish it tomorrow. I've read the two following post, but I will write my comments later.

That is ok; I am short of time also, since tomorrow is Easter, and I desire to send out some e-cards today.
I hope you have a great trip. Where to this time? When do you go? It is so much fun to travel.

[PierreGringoire]

So is The Tale of Two Cities BETTER than Great Expectations.
I was just wondering because I'm trying to decide which one to read. I like really mezmirizing books like count of monte cristo and les miserables-- melodramatic even... I was just wondering which one you would reccomend over the other?

[DapperDrake]

Definatly, I would definately say Tale of two cities is better than Great Expectations. I read a tale of two cities several years ago so I can barely remember the plot, but I do remember thinking that it was superb at the time - if a little blunt with its sensibilities.

[Janine]

So is The Tale of Two Cities BETTER than Great Expectations.
I was just wondering because I'm trying to decide which one to read. I like really mezmirizing books like count of monte cristo and les miserables-- melodramatic even... I was just wondering which one you would reccomend over the other?

Hi PierreGringoire, I absolutely agree with DapperDrake; and from what you say that you enjoy reading, you will love "A Tale of Two Cities". I read it twice and I would read it again. It is a wonderful book! I also read the full-length 5 volume version of "Les Miserables" - that one, I only read once. I think it was the most amazing book I have ever read.
I adore "A Tale of Two Cities" and highly recommend the Masterpiece Theater Production, as well (comes on DVD), as a companion to your exposure to this fine Dicken's novel and story.

[icandoit]

thanks god. So lucky that i am reading this book. I am newbie and new in reading fiction too. So help me ^ ^

[Captain_Kuchiki]

According to my brother, A Tale of Two Cities wasn't much good. It was meandering and was spread too thin over a lot of random people and didn't have coherence. (I have other books to read, anyway).

[Janine]

According to my brother, A Tale of Two Cities wasn't much good. It was meandering and was spread too thin over a lot of random people and didn't have coherence. (I have other books to read, anyway).

Don't listen to your brother. The book is incredible. I read it when I was young in high school and then I did not appreciate it as well. I read a few years ago before we started this thread and I loved every minute of it. It is history - how can history and revolutions be boring. The book is a masterpiece of literature. It might not be for you if you are looking for fast-paced action packed books such as the movies now empart; but to say a "Tale of Two Cities" wasn't good is personal opinion and most people would not agree with you on that thought since the book is probably Dickens' most famous works.

[wilbur lim]

Charles Dicken is my protangonist and the dominant writter ever.His works are perfect for me.

[optimisticnad]

I suppose I'm too late? ;-) I don't suppose you meant valentine's day 2009? Anyway I'm going to stick to the point because i never do....where was i? I've not read this yet but it is next on my reading list and I look forward to adding my insipid contribution to this thread. On Valentine's day 2009.
Just out of curiosity - why are we reading this on this momentous day? Without giving too much away? Is there some grand love story? A simple nod of the head will do.

[Quark]

It's a good book, but the discussion for it ended last year. There is a romance in it, but the book seems more concerned with personal redemption and social upheaval. I guess it was an odd choice for Valentine's day, but I think we still enjoyed it anyway.

[RG57]

Even though I've missed the discussion on the book, I found it an excellent read. I love Dickens' work and this one ranks in the top five.

[optimisticnad]

Even though I've missed the discussion on the book, I found it an excellent read. I love Dickens' work and this one ranks in the top five.

I see no reason why we can't continue discussing it. I'm sure there are many people who have not read the book and are interested in doing so. Discuss away.....

[Eugenie]

I realize this is rather out there from what has been discussed, but I would like to talk about the mob mentality. It is horrendous to me to think that one person can whip up a crowd to do what no sane person would think of doing normally.That a person could sit by and watch unspeakable acts and then eat and drink and live to do it all again is beyond my comprehension. When humanity goes without manners or civility,when they trade dialogue or at least bloodless actions for bloodthirsty acts that no animal would do, I tremble. Because at that point all reason has fled and what is to prevent the instigators from taking a look at me or you and deciding the color of our hair or eyes is unacceptable and a threat and we too must be eliminated. shiver.
Charles Dickens was beautifully able to take us right into the foray and feel and smell and see what the characters saw. Wonderful