Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: In Need of Insights

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20

    This is Tormenting ME, HELP

    "This secret truth would be something formulable as a univocal principle of plantation which would account for everything in the novel. The secret truth about Wuthering Heights, rather, is that there is no secret truth which criticism might formulate in this way. No hidden identifiable ordering principle which will account for everything stands at the head of the chain or at the back of the back. Any formulation of such a principle is visibly reductive. It leaves something important still unaccounted for."
    Wuthering Heights: Repetition and the "Uncanny" by J. Hillis Miller

    "What is it that, with this novel, the logical mind so conspicuously fails? What does this have to do with the gage or promissory note that both holds off death and risks death, puts one's death on the line, as a kind of mortgage insurance? Why is it that an interpretative origin, logos in the sense of ground, measure, chief word, or accounting reason, cannot be identified for Wuthering Heights? If such an origin could be found, all obscurity could be cleared up. Everything could be brought out in the open where it might be clearly seen, added up, paid off, and evened out. What forbids this accounting?"
    Ibid

    A teacher told me that in HIS OPINION - as if it were ONLY his - all the problems of the novel could be solved by interpreting Old Earnshaw's words "A gift from god" as a confession that Heathcliff is his illegitemate son, and since that would make him a half-brother to Catherine their union cannot be completed according to certain religious or evolutionary rules which the whole novel then would go to prove and to show the consequences of their transgression. (These are not his exact words, rather, their implication).

    What questions does this interpretation leave unanswered? I thought about it over and over and found nothing that would be "reduced" or left out by adopting this as the secret truth, the same Miller said is non-existent.
    This point could not have escaped the attention of a critic like Miller, and if he was so strongly advocating the absence of an all-inclusive justifying core, he would have deemed this point unable of achieving such a position. BUT WHY?

    If anything comes to mind as being left out by this interpretation please help.
    My torment has been that Miller presented his point with such a good show of reason, and that teacher with such an ego-centric confidence stole an opinion and made it his own, and that his easily-stolen opinion could with the same ease refute Miller's "good show of reason", for me at least, because I can't think of what this interpretation would leave out.

    Anything would be helpful.
    Thanks in Advance.
    Last edited by imatitle; 05-01-2008 at 08:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    20,354
    Blog Entries
    248
    Oh I wish I could help you. It's been a while since I read this wonderful novel. I'm not sure I've heard that Heathcliff was an illegitemate son. I thought he was adopted from the middle east. But my memory may not be so good. I wish I could comment on Miller's comment. The book is too far from me for such a specific question, but if you want to support Miller's comment I would go with the argument that Heathcliff's and Catherine's relationship goes beyond any possible rationality, so even if there is some secret then it is irrelevant. I've always said that Wuthering Heights is the best English novel of the 19th century.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    Thank you very much for replying to my question so quickly.
    I was of the opinion that this is a form of bending the text too far for a certain purpose. If Heathcliff was Earnshaw's illegitimate son, why didn't he make sure that he would be well provided for after his death? Besides Bronte does not seem so passionate about the religious or evolutionary issues that such a view would envoke.
    But this alone is not enough. Only by finding, even one instance, this view would leave unaccounted for, can my torment end.
    Thanks Again.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20

    In Need of Insights

    I have already posted this in the Wuthering Heights sub-forum, and got only one response. I don't know if I'm breaking any forum rules by reposting it here.

    "This secret truth would be something formulable as a univocal principle of plantation which would account for everything in the novel. The secret truth about Wuthering Heights, rather, is that there is no secret truth which criticism might formulate in this way. No hidden identifiable ordering principle which will account for everything stands at the head of the chain or at the back of the back. Any formulation of such a principle is visibly reductive. It leaves something important still unaccounted for."
    Wuthering Heights: Repetition and the "Uncanny" by J. Hillis Miller

    "What is it that, with this novel, the logical mind so conspicuously fails? What does this have to do with the gage or promissory note that both holds off death and risks death, puts one's death on the line, as a kind of mortgage insurance? Why is it that an interpretative origin, logos in the sense of ground, measure, chief word, or accounting reason, cannot be identified for Wuthering Heights? If such an origin could be found, all obscurity could be cleared up. Everything could be brought out in the open where it might be clearly seen, added up, paid off, and evened out. What forbids this accounting?"
    Ibid

    A teacher told me that in HIS OPINION - as if it were ONLY his - all the problems of the novel could be solved by interpreting Old Earnshaw's words "A gift from god" as a confession that Heathcliff is his illegitemate son, and since that would make him a half-brother to Catherine their union cannot be completed according to certain religious or evolutionary rules which the whole novel then would go to prove and to show the consequences of their transgression. (These are not his exact words, rather, their implication).

    What questions does this interpretation leave unanswered? I thought about it over and over and found nothing that would be "reduced" or left out by adopting this as the secret truth, the same Miller said is non-existent.
    This point could not have escaped the attention of a critic like Miller, and if he was so strongly advocating the absence of an all-inclusive justifying core, he would have deemed this point unable of achieving such a position. BUT WHY?

    If anything comes to mind as being left out by this interpretation please help.
    My torment has been that Miller presented his point with such a good show of reason, and that teacher with such an ego-centric confidence stole an opinion and made it his own, and that his easily-stolen opinion could with the same ease refute Miller's "good show of reason", for me at least, because I can't think of what this interpretation would leave out.

    Anything would be helpful.
    Thanks in Advance.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    Would anyone care to help? Please
    Anything would be of use.

  6. #6
    mind your back chasestalling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    close to home but not too close
    Posts
    395
    It's been awhile since I read this book.

    As to Miller's assertion that the book can't be reduced to a formula, I'm in complete agreement.

    By definition the underlying principle of any work of art is beyond the grasp of matter of fact explanations.
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    --Shakespeare

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    That is exactly what set my confusion about. If the book can't be reduced to a formula - which seems reasonable enough - how is it then, that Heathcliff's being the illegitimate child of Old Earnshaw appears to be that very same justification or formula?
    My question, whose answer I need to assert this view, persists. What are the things that are left out by this "Formula"?

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20

    Was Heathcliff the Illegitimate Son of Old Earnshaw?

    If this is true, and can be adequately advocated, it seems able to stand as a justification for the whole novel.
    What do you think?

  9. #9
    Bibliophile JBI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    6,360
    There is no proof? it is merely speculation. It is possible, and highly likely (given the cash that magically appears for Heathcliff) but not proven. It would seem likely, given the Byronic nature of Bronte literature, but still, there is no real substantial proof.

    The affair seems unlikely to me however, because of the descriptions of Heathcliff. They seem to imply some sort of dark-skinned/Romani origins (he is referred to as a Gypsy in the book), and the dark supernatural elements surrounding him.

    Either way, his legitimacy has/could have no affect on how events transpire, because he is never told of them, and neither is Catherine. The events seem class-oriented rather than religion-oriented.
    Last edited by JBI; 05-07-2008 at 08:36 PM.

  10. #10
    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    20,354
    Blog Entries
    248
    Someone else just asked this question. If I can find the thread I'll cross link it here.

    Edit: Here it is and it was asked by the same person: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=34725
    Last edited by Virgil; 05-07-2008 at 08:49 PM.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  11. #11
    mind your back chasestalling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    close to home but not too close
    Posts
    395
    The parts of a story might be charted as conflict, complication, denouement and resolution. The formula as we've termed the conflict is a mere part of the story.
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    --Shakespeare

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    I thought posting the question differently might help with the answers.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    I'm stuck defending something I don't really believe in, and without enough evidence for not doing so.

    Heathcliff's gypsy inheritance could have come to him through his mother.
    This view could disregard the mutual unawareness simply by saying that Brontė advocated the part religion or evolution played in life even if it happened behind the scenes, and even in the absence of knowledge as a kind of test or proof of impossibility, that such proximity is practically inconceivable. In the same manner that you and I might say that Brontė's orientation was towards the implications of classes.
    There is some similarity, I think, to Oedipus's unawareness.


    This formula, our formula, Miller's non-existent formula is what brings the whole book into light, so that nothing is left in the dark, and everything makes sense. This concept of formula is instinctively repulsive to me, the only problem is, that If Heathcliff's being Catherine's half brother is this formula, it seems all too possible, and all too accounting for the novel than it not being so or than the absence of the formula. As you refer to the formula as being only a part of the book, what other parts are left in the dark by its application?

    The question remains, what is left out?
    Last edited by imatitle; 05-08-2008 at 08:43 PM.

  14. #14
    mind your back chasestalling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    close to home but not too close
    Posts
    395
    Without a conflict, whether it be the protagonist versus antagonist or the author against an overused cliched formula, there is no story to speak of.

    Still it's only a starting point, the conflict. Take the title WUTHERING HEIGHTS. It means to hurl, to bluster, a derivative of whither. One might easily argue that living in such a manner, as represented by Heathcliff, is the formula of the book, that its a paean to wildness & savageness and that amid such bluster and ferocity the sensitive civilized world of Catherine as contrived by Old Earnshaw is doomed.
    If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly.
    --Shakespeare

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    20
    Catherine's civility was rather "imposed" on her by "the" Thrushcross Grange, mark the way Catherine was looking into the Grange from the outer windows with Heathcliff, the dogs' scene as told by Heathcliff and the change she exhibits after first coming back from there.

    There is not an "overused cliched formula" in the book unless your talking about the supposed love story which, by no means, could stand as the "formula" "cliched" or not of the book.

    Miller's view which exposes the inevitable flaws of any potential "formula" stands remarkably well establishing the impossibility of a governing principle for the novel; as such that would leave nothing out, that won't be partial and that would be what always seems "missing" from the novel.

    My application of the term "formula" was exactly what Miller termed "the secret truth". And only a formula in that sense, or rather it's absence and governing the entire work, could be held and questioned with the possibility of Heathcliff's being Catherine's half-brother as an "underminer".

    Why should the formula extend only to the conflict? If that's what you understand by it.

    The question is still here, What is left out?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Harry Potter
    By jessw in forum General Literature
    Replies: 550
    Last Post: 12-03-2011, 12:12 PM
  2. A new approach to literary criticism
    By JananiH in forum Pride and Prejudice
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-20-2007, 10:18 AM
  3. No Subject
    By Unregistered in forum Siddhartha
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 05-24-2005, 06:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •