A Rose For Emily

[Chester]

Yep, that makes more sense. I'm officially taking my guess off the table.

[papayahed]

Papaya, good observation. Do you think Faulkner was aware that arsenic poisoning wasn't quick? I wonder why Homer didn't leave the first time he became ill. He was certainly physically stronger than Miss Emily, and I would think a man who was Do you think the servant physically restrained him? I think his name was Tobe.

I was wondering about that and I came to the conclusion that Faulkner was too good at crafting the story not to know that arsenic poisoning wasn't quick. I read somewhere that in the past arsenic poison symptoms were like the symptom for cholera, Homer probably just thought he was sick.

[NickAdams]

Thanks for pointing that out Dapper and thanks for asking the question Virgil.

If Emily is the house and the house is Emily. And if Emily represents: "a tradition, a duty, and a care."

I find it interesting that the manservant is both gardener and cook; he tends to both the house and Emily. This is a stretch, but could it represent how slavery preserved a decaying culture?

To continue with slaverya and American history, I would like to quote the first sentence:

"When Miss Emily Grierson died, our whole town went to her funeral: the men through a sort
of respectful affection for a fallen monument, the women mostly out of curiosity to see the
inside of her house, which no one save an old manservant---a combined gardener and cook-had
seen in at least ten years."

Here's the sentence again ... kind of:

"When the South died, our whole town went to her funeral: the men (those who may have seen battle) through a sort
of respectful affection for a fallen monument, the women (those whose gender roles leave little liberty) mostly out of curiosity to see the
inside of her house, which no one save an old manservant---a combined gardener and cook-had
truly seen in at least ten years."

[Virgil]

Thanks for pointing that out Dapper and thanks for asking the question Virgil.

If Emily is the house and the house is Emily. And if Emily represents: "a tradition, a duty, and a care."

I find it interesting that the manservant is both gardener and cook; he tends to both the house and Emily. This is a stretch, but could it represent how slavery preserved a decaying culture?

To continue with slaverya and American history, I would like to quote the first sentence:

"When Miss Emily Grierson died, our whole town went to her funeral: the men through a sort
of respectful affection for a fallen monument, the women mostly out of curiosity to see the
inside of her house, which no one save an old manservant---a combined gardener and cook-had
seen in at least ten years."

Here's the sentence again ... kind of:

"When the South died, our whole town went to her funeral: the men (those who may have seen battle) through a sort
of respectful affection for a fallen monument, the women (those whose gender roles leave little liberty) mostly out of curiosity to see the
inside of her house, which no one save an old manservant---a combined gardener and cook-had
truly seen in at least ten years."

Wow, that is excellent Nick. I think it fits except for one thing. I don't think Faulkner had on his mind women's liberation in any way. I think the women are interested in the house because of their domestic role in society. I've never seen Faulkner concerned with feminist issues. At least I've never noticed any.

[NickAdams]

Wow, that is excellent Nick. I think it fits except for one thing. I don't think Faulkner had on his mind women's liberation in any way. I think the women are interested in the house because of their domestic role in society. I've never seen Faulkner concerned with feminist issues. At least I've never noticed any.

Lol, you're right. People always say that Hemingway was a misogynist, but there seems to be more reason to believe Faulkner was one. Brett Ashley is stronger than any of the women I have come across in Faulkner's works.

Faulkner's women are naive and are drawn to abusive men: Lena Grove to Lucas Burch (Joe Brown), Joanna Burden to Joe Christmas, ??? to Lee Goodwin and Temple Drake to Popeye.

Maybe it's the death of romanticism in the South. The men out of respect for the southern belle and the women to see what a southern belle was. This is the disillusionment of the upper and middle class of the South, which only the lower-class (manservants) truly saw.

Even thought Faulkner thought the South needed to progress, he mourned for the southern belle.

[Virgil]

Although I would say that Lena Grove (Light In August) is a powerful woman in many respects and overcomes the attachment to a bad male. But she does it through her feminity not any androgenous sense of being.

[NickAdams]

Although I would say that Lena Grove (Light In August) is a powerful woman in many respects and overcomes the attachment to a bad male. But she does it through her feminity not any androgenous sense of being.

I thought you might say that. I have to be prepared with you Virg. You are right though. Faulkner's titles are important to his works, so it was good that you pointed the rose out. Even though more time is spent with Joe Christmas, Lena Grove is light or the light in august. Do you remember the gender of the child?

[Virgil]

I thought you might say that. I have to be prepared with you Virg. You are right though. Faulkner's titles are important to his works, so it was good that you pointed the rose out. Even though more time is spent with Joe Christmas, Lena Grove is light or the light in august. Do you remember the gender of the child?

Well, given that the story paralleled the Christ story I'm going to say the gender was male.

Oh by the way, 'light" also was southern slang for giving birth. Light as in not heavy with child.

[NickAdams]

Well, given that the story paralleled the Christ story I'm going to say the gender was male.

Oh by the way, 'light" also was southern slang for giving birth. Light as in not heavy with child.

Saved by a male. I read that some time ago, that's why I said she is light or the light; the former being slang use.

Lena had a son. But, good as "Light in August" is, let's come back to "A Rose for Emily," okay?

You're right. When discussing Faulkner, it's hard not to refer to his entire cannon.

Does anyone have any ideas about the theme?

We know one of Faulkner's favorite themes is the past versus the present. Or at least he loves contrasting the past with the present, and I think he does a wonderful job of it in this story.

Don't forget "love and honor and pity and pride and compassion and sacrifice."

Can this be seen as a tragedy? We are moved to pity and fear at the end of the story.

[DapperDrake]

I'm not really moved to pity and fear, however I found the story profoundly sad and tragic. My heart bleeds for Miss Emily, just as DapperDan said. I definitely see this as a tragedy.

I'm not secure in that conclusion though, like Chester suggested we may be reading that into the story as a reflection of something within ourselves. As Virgil pointed out there isn't enough evidence to draw any hard conclusions about Miss Emily, Faulkner keeps her at arms length the whole time, we never know what she's thinking or what she feels - Possibly because the narrator doesn't know these things either.

I think my main feeling about Emily now is ambivalence, I don't know quite what to make of her or what I should be feeling about the story. That multifaceted quality of the story is I think a deliberate device to keep our focus diffuse. The author has several prominent and important themes that he's making statements about and he doesn't want us to focus on the protagonist. That's a conclusion I'm leaning toward anyway.

Edit:

Having just re-read the last chapter I would say that yes, pity is the prominent feeling, perhaps mixed with a little horror (repugnance?) rather than fear. Its only on reflection that I feel sad for Emily and the tragedy of her life bites, not on actually reading the story - remember my first post which I made moments after reading the story, I thought it was bland and didn't care about Emily

Oh good find Dapper. I hadn't notice that. Could the rose be Homer, dried up and pickled like a preserved flower? Faulkner was very fond of John Keats' poetry and uses images from "Ode to a Grecian Urn" frequently. Could the preserved rose (and therefore Homer) be like a Keats' urn a preserved moment in time, Emily holding on to that one moment in time, as time actually goes by?

I think you've hit the nail there Virgil, I didn't get the dried flower analogy, that's perfect. "a preserved moment in time", yes, just like a dried flower; and homer is the focus, though the room is preserved too.
I would never of gotten the keats link, I don't like Keats as a rule and I know nothing of Faulkner, to be honest I hadn't heard of him before I came to this forum. You've inspired me to dig Keats off the shelf though - I'm reading the poem now

[Virgil]

Anti, I've mention many themes throughout the thread. This is from one of my first posts after having read the story. I think this pretty much still states my view of the central theme:

Actually that may be only one of the cores to the story. I took the core to be the contrast between the social constraits and Emily's individual desires. That's why the choice of narrator is so important. And like Chester I think implies the narrator is not just a person but the town itself. The story is told through the point of view of the town. The social constraints are imposed on her, both from the father and the town. Perhaps it may be the very same thing. I don't think we're privy enough to the father's issues (it is a short story, but amazing how much Faulkner puts into this little gem!) but they may parallel the town's issues. So we may be saying the same thing. Also there is a generational gap between the values of her father's and the current town. So perhaps there is a distinction between the father's constraints and the town's constraints.

There a slew of contrasts throughout the story. The approach is extremely dualistic: black/white, individual/society, older/younger generation, father/child, life/death, union/confederate, babtist/episcapal, north/south, man/woman, youth/age. I believe there is thematic significance to the dualities. But let me hold off on that for now.

Yes I still believe the central theme is the inability of Emily to transcend all the contraints about her. And the the dualities are an aesthetic reflection of the split between her internal yearnings versus the external circumscriptions. The story is about individual egocentricity constrained by social pressure.

Yes, I do agree Virgil, but doesn't "change is essential in order to adapt to life" encompass that? Or not? LOL

You've narrowed it down a lot more than I have.

I have trouble with theme. I seem to stick to it in my writing, but I have trouble expressing it clearly, I don't mind admitting.

It's very complex and has several themes. I just picked what I thought was the main one. Oh you should also let the theme come out naturally in your writings. I don't believe a good writer starts with a theme. He starts with a story and understands the theme from the implications of the story and then craft the story.

[NickAdams]

Do you think Emily intentionally killed Homer, or was it Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy? Was she keeping him sick, so he would be dependent on her. Did the relationship with her father create abandonment issues?

If she wanted Homer dead, she could have used other means. There was never an inquiry into Homer's state. She could have stabbed him with out trouble. Was his death an accident? Had Emily been mourning all those years.

[tractatus]

Writing style here not difficult yes, though not necessary.
Stream of consciousness; may be It could be done only from the perspective of Tobe, who can observe both town and house. (The narrator here know very less from inside of the house)

- But I am still one of "so what"ters. Okey, this is academically and mathematically well built story, but dont get me after reading. Many concepts in story, is also used by Faulkner in his novels. This is his atmosphere. Nothing original for him.

- The opening sentence and " Only a man of Colonel Sartoris' generation and thought could have invented it,..." are the sentence I underlined, I like them.

- Her father build a strong control over her but Is this enough made her get
loose her mind? Or the Homer's behaviour, enough? If these are the reason, I 'd faced more than this. But what i believe is she carried hereditary mental sickness, as they mention her aunt.

[Chester]

Oh, by the way, to the poster who mentioned Virginia Woolf's "Haunted House", I read it last night and I do love it. I wouldn't say it packs more in just under 700 words than "A Rose for Emily," but almost as much and it's certainly masterfully written. I don't want to go off topic, but I wanted to thank that poster (I can't remember who it is) for introducing me to the short stories of Virginia Woolf. Previously, I had read only her novels.

You're more than welcome.

It reads almost like a beautiful poem, doesn't it? I'm glad you liked it, Antiquarian.

[NickAdams]

Well, I definitely don't think it was Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome. That happens when someone makes someone else ill or injures someone to gain attention from others, not the person he or she is injuring. The most common example is a mother who makes her child sick or injures her child so she can interact with emergency room personnel.

We don't know what happened after the townspeople found Homer. Faulkner doesn't tell us.

I think she probably just killed him as fast as she could with arsenic. I think she was probably terrified he'd realize what was going on and leave before he was so sick he couldn't.

I know it isn't it exactly, but I wanted to associate with the concept. I didn't want to say Emily was like Annie Wilkes.

I wonder where the weight gain came from. Was it depression, or just old age. I would think that her appetite would go.

By the time the townspeople found Homer, Emily was dead; it took years to discover the body, so Emily got away with her crime. She knew no one would ask of Homer's whereabouts. She could have bludgeoned him to death or pushed him down the stairs. Why did she choose poison, when there are quicker ways?