A Rose For Emily

[Nossa]

Perhaps status might not have been so important to her had she found love, but she didn't, and status was really all she had left.

I don't think so. It's true that we don't have a full history of her life, but Miss Emily was miserable because of her social status and the restrictions put on her because of it. We don't have an evidence of this, but don't you think that it's very likely that she loved someone, once in her life, and that someone was dismissed by her father cuz he didn't measure up? I don't think that status was all that's left for her, I think Homer's corpse was all that's left for her, it was all that's left from the 'dream' of a life she would have had, if she wasn't that high in the society's rank.

[Virgil]

Here's something I'm not clear about, and maybe one of my fellow posters could enlighten me.

After the narrator says:

And that was the last we saw of Homer Barron. And of MIss Emily for some tme.

We have to assume, Miss Emily has poisoned Homer Barron.

But later it says:

From that time on her front door remained closed, save for a period of six or seven years, when she was about forty, during which she gave lessons in china painting. She fitted up a studio in one of the downstairs rooms, where the daughters and granddaughters of Colonel Sartoris' contemporaries were sent to her with the same regularity and in the same spirit that they were sent to church on Sundays with a twenty-five-cent piece for the collection plate. Meanwhile her taxes had been remitted.

So, Miss Emily is paying her taxes?

And why didn't the china painting pupils smell Homer's rotting corpse? Had the lime already been spread? Even so, when the door was broken down, the stench, the narrator says, was terrible. I guess it just didn't drift down to the first floor?

Miss Emily's funeral was held in her home, so I guess no one noticed the smell until they actually entered the room with the corpse.

I'm not sure I can figure out the tax situation. I just thought they let her not pay them. The body would only smell for a few months I believe. Over the course of a year I think the smell dissipate. I could be wrong.

But poor Miss Emily! The narrator says:

They held the funeral on the second day, with the town coming to look at Miss Emily beneath a mass of bought flowers, with the crayon face of her father musing profoundly above the bier and the ladies sibilant and macabre;...

Poor Miss Emily. All she ever wanted was to love and be loved, and in the end, even at her own funeral, she can't escape the father who dominated her so.

I agree with DapperDan. My heart just bleeds for Miss Emily. I wanted her to find love so much.

I find the story so profoundly sad. In killing Homer, Miss Emily also killed any chance she might have had to interact with the living.

Interesting on that last statement. It is sad and tragic. But she did kill someone. Even if he is a "rat." In the end, the constraints are self imposed.

[Nossa]

Nossa, Faulkner's short stories are not written in the long, convoluted style he used for his novels. His novelistic style of writing is much, much more difficult. He tends not to use the pure stream-of-consciousness that can be found in many of his novels.

For my money, The Sound and the Fury is probably the best example of stream-of-consciousness - ever, even eclipsing Joyce. But even in that masterpiece, Faulkner varies his technique. One character, Benjy's parts are pretty uncomplicated, but another character's, Quentin Compson's are very, very complex. Another, character, Jason, has his sections written in yet another style. Part of the genius of Faulkner is that he could adjust his style of writing to fit any character.

And, as Virgil has mentioned, Faulkner always left "holes and spaces" in his narrative for the reader to fill in. (Toni Morrison does the same thing.) In this way, the reader becomes an active participant in the creation of the story.

Hope that helps a little. We can talk more about Faulkner's writing style later. He did use some techniques in this story that he used in his novels.

I never read anything by Faulkner except for this story so I can't really tell if I'll like his style in the novels. I guess I'm just trying to encourage myself cuz I'm kind of intimidated by him lol...But it's a good start that I understood the story, or at least came up with some ideas from a first read...you gotta give me credit for that

Oh, yes, I do agree. I do think she probably loved one of those suitors her father dismissed as not being good enough.

But, until she murders Homer, I do think her status, or her perceived status, was all she had left. And with the changing times, she even lost that. In the end, I think all she had left was Homer's corpse.

You might be right, but this time when Homer was still alive is kinda vague for me, so I guess I'll go back to the story to get more information on that.

But yeah, I guess one of the saddest things about this story is the discovery of Homer's coprse. It's as if Faulkner is showing that even that dream that was once embodied in Homer, it's dead and rotten in an attic. I think the last part in this story is just too sad, makes you really think what the people thought of as they saw what their traditions did to her.

I give you credit for a lot, Nossa, and I'm glad you're participating in this discussion. You've given us valuable insight into the story, just as all the posters have. I hope you'll have time to read one of Faulkner's novels some day.

I'm sure that I will. I was actually planning on reading one of his novels this summer vacation. I already have 'Absalom, Absalom!' but I've been told it's his most difficult works. So I guess I'll buy As I Lay Dying, cuz I read it's the shortest, and see what happens.
Right now I'll go to sleep, cuz it's past 3 am lol...I'll get to the story tomorrow again, and come back with more ideas...hopefully

[Virgil]

I'm sure that I will. I was actually planning on reading one of his novels this summer vacation. I already have 'Absalom, Absalom!' but I've been told it's his most difficult works. So I guess I'll buy As I Lay Dying, cuz I read it's the shortest, and see what happens.
Right now I'll go to sleep, cuz it's past 3 am lol...I'll get to the story tomorrow again, and come back with more ideas...hopefully

No, don't start with Absalom. It's a great work, but soooo hard. I've always been told to start with As I Lay Dying, but you know that's the one great Faulkner work I've never read. So I can't say. I would actually start with The Sound and the Fury. We read it as a book forum read and discussed it here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ght=sound+fury. It's a little hard at the beginning but once someone orients you it's not as hard. just don't be obssessed with knowing every detail. It's more important to understand the general trend of the work. Plus Cliff Notes on this are free on the internet: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...ry.id-125.html and they help you orient yourself. Plus I think there are other internet sites that can help. I would also agree with Light In August. That's my favorite Faulkner novel. Once you untangle the time line in that one, it's not as hard. But very powerful and beautiful.

Nossa, this is from Quentin Compson's section of The Sound and the Fury. This is probably as difficult as Faulkner gets;

When the shadow of the sash appeared on the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excruciating-ly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.

I don't find it all that difficult, but an entire book written in stream-of-consciousness can be draining.

Really? I thought the Benjy section was harder.

[Janine]

Gee, now I think I know why I have not tackled Faulkner - too hard! I just read all of your last 4 posts discussing the book. I think I would be lucky reading "Light in August"...doesn't sound as difficult.....anyway, I like the title of that one best, as well. Thanks Antiquarian and Virgil for some insight on the novels, recommendations.

[papayahed]

Yes, I just got that 'rat' idea. It is rather witty, actually - Homer was a 'rat', a we call it in the states. He used her, woeing her and leading her along. He must have taken advantage and I suppose she did believe him, being the naive person she is described as. In a sense, she never grew up because of her overbearing father; he kept her a child, she had no real chance to become a woman. So the 'for rats' label ends up being appropriate, even though poor Miss Emily is probably not aware of that idea at all. Her intention is strickly to keep Homer to herself. Afterall, she did try to keep her father, as well when he died, but finally the town's people took him away. This time she would be assured of keeping the man by her always by hiding him in the attic room.

I'm not sure we can label Miss Emily as "poor" and "naive". The only concrete notion we have of Miss Emily is her interaction with the town alderman and the druggist and in both cases she appeared to be a woman in control, definately not some poor confused girl. (Not to mention the preacher that ent to visit)

[Virgil]

I'm not sure we can label Miss Emily as "poor" and "naive". The only concrete notion we have of Miss Emily is her interaction with the town alderman and the druggist and in both cases she appeared to be a woman in control, definately not some poor confused girl. (Not to mention the preacher that ent to visit)

I agree. She "vanquishes" the people coming over for the taxes. I was thinking the same thing Papaya.

[Janine]

I'm not sure we can label Miss Emily as "poor" and "naive". The only concrete notion we have of Miss Emily is her interaction with the town alderman and the druggist and in both cases she appeared to be a woman in control, definately not some poor confused girl. (Not to mention the preacher that ent to visit)

Yes, you are right, Papayahed; I guess I was reading that into the story. It seems I need to go back and read the story again or parts of it. That was merely an impression I formed because she did not marry. I did not in anyway, think she was out of control or confused - only when her father died and she would not reliquish the dead body, but that was a sort of 'temporary insanity' which passed and was understandable - more like shock. But then again, she did do poor Homer in at the end; that wasn't exactly sane, to keep a body and sleep with it. But she could not have been naive to do this either. She was quirpy I suppose and eccentric, but not naive. Would they be appropriate words to describe her?

[Nossa]

Nossa, this is from Quentin Compson's section of The Sound and the Fury. This is probably as difficult as Faulkner gets;

When the shadow of the sash appeared on the curtains it was between seven and eight oclock and then I was in time again, hearing the watch. It was Grandfather’s and when Father gave it to me he said I give you the mausoleum of all hope and desire; it’s rather excruciating-ly apt that you will use it to gain the reducto absurdum of all human experience which can fit your individual needs no better than it fitted his or his father’s. I give it to you not that you may remember time, but that you might forget it now and then for a moment and not spend all your breath trying to conquer it. Because no battle is ever won he said. They are not even fought. The field only reveals to man his own folly and despair, and victory is an illusion of philosophers and fools.

I don't find it all that difficult, but an entire book written in stream-of-consciousness can be draining.

I actually understood this part (), but I think it's like you said, when it's a whole novel it's harder than one paragraph.

No, don't start with Absalom. It's a great work, but soooo hard. I've always been told to start with As I Lay Dying, but you know that's the one great Faulkner work I've never read. So I can't say. I would actually start with The Sound and the Fury. We read it as a book forum read and discussed it here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ght=sound+fury. It's a little hard at the beginning but once someone orients you it's not as hard. just don't be obssessed with knowing every detail. It's more important to understand the general trend of the work. Plus Cliff Notes on this are free on the internet: http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/...ry.id-125.html and they help you orient yourself. Plus I think there are other internet sites that can help. I would also agree with Light In August. That's my favorite Faulkner novel. Once you untangle the time line in that one, it's not as hard. But very powerful and beautiful.

It really depends on the books I can find here. Faulkner's works were always the hardest to find. I'll start looking right after exams

[Virgil]

Before we get to the theme, can we talk about the rose. The story is called "A Rose for Emily." And there is no rose in the entire story. What's the significance of the rose?

[papayahed]

I'd like to mention the poisoning. Arsenic poisoning isn't quick, one dose doesn't kill you. Miss Emily had to give repeated doses and witness the symptoms of the poisoning which include vomiting, nasea, diahhrea, convulsions, cramps, etc.

[Nossa]

Before we get to the theme, can we talk about the rose. The story is called "A Rose for Emily." And there is no rose in the entire story. What's the significance of the rose?

You're right, I didn't find any reference to any roses in the story. I think that maybe the rose symbolizes the idea of sadness of the story. It's like when you go visit the grave of someone you loved or someone you at least feel sorry for their death, you put a rose on their grave, and hope they're in a better place.

[Chester]

I just assumed the rose was the story itself. Written from "the town" as a gesture of remembrance.

[DapperDrake]

Before we get to the theme, can we talk about the rose. The story is called "A Rose for Emily." And there is no rose in the entire story. What's the significance of the rose?

Yes this occured to me last night but I couldn't think of what it meant. What are roses symbolic of? romance, love, and they also have thorns so there's pain there. Maybe its no more than that but that seems a bit weak to me.

I've just gone back to the text and come up this this:

"The violence of breaking down the door seemed to fill this room with pervading dust. A thin, acrid pall as of the tomb seemed to lie everywhere upon this room decked and furnished as for a bridal: upon the valance curtains of faded rose color. upon the rose-shaded lights, upon
the dressing table. "

From the end, plenty of references to the colour rose there. perhaps the "rose" room is Emily's Rose... Her consolation.

[Virgil]

Yes this occured to me last night but I couldn't think of what it meant. What are roses symbolic of? romance, love, and they also have thorns so there's pain there. Maybe its no more than that but that seems a bit weak to me.

I've just gone back to the text and come up this this:

"The violence of breaking down the door seemed to fill this room with pervading dust. A thin, acrid pall as of the tomb seemed to lie everywhere upon this room decked and furnished as for a bridal: upon the valance curtains of faded rose color. upon the rose-shaded lights, upon
the dressing table. "

From the end, plenty of references to the colour rose there. perhaps the "rose" room is Emily's Rose... Her consolation.

Oh good find Dapper. I hadn't notice that. Could the rose be Homer, dried up and pickled like a preserved flower? Faulkner was very fond of John Keats' poetry and uses images from "Ode to a Grecian Urn" frequently. Could the preserved rose (and therefore Homer) be like a Keats' urn a preserved moment in time, Emily holding on to that one moment in time, as time actually goes by?