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Thread: Chekhov Short Story Thread

  1. #376
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    I've decided on a story. I brought it up earlier; it's called "The Student." This should make Janine happy since she's already read it, but I think it has some other positives besides that. "The Student" explores the value behind story-telling which makes it an excellent look into the motives behind Chekhov's story-telling. Part of the fun of reading this story is in drawing parallels between the student's tale and Chekhov's other short stories. This story is often included in collections because it explains many of Chekhov's views on art in way that dry analysis sometimes fails to. The story is also enjoyable by itself, though. It has its plot, pathos, and poetry which are as moving as the other stories we've done. The only typical Chekhovian device that's missing from this story is ambiguity. The last story was very unclear, but this one has a much more direct manner of expression. That was actually part of the reason I choose this one. I felt like we were all getting a little tired of stories with multiple, conflicting explanations where we have to ask "Does this character really love that one?" or "Is the perspective of this character prejudiced?" I do like Chekhov's irony and ambiguity, but I think we need a short break from it. "The Student" isn't without mystery, though. There should be some questions left after reading.

    I'll post a more formal and less rambling introduction tomorrow. The discussion should be fun. I don't think we'll go too long on this one, however. It's a short, short story (3 pages!).
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  2. #377
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I've decided on a story. I brought it up earlier; it's called "The Student." This should make Janine happy since she's already read it, but I think it has some other positives besides that. "The Student" explores the value behind story-telling which makes it an excellent look into the motives behind Chekhov's story-telling. Part of the fun of reading this story is in drawing parallels between the student's tale and Chekhov's other short stories. This story is often included in collections because it explains many of Chekhov's views on art in way that dry analysis sometimes fails to. The story is also enjoyable by itself, though. It has its plot, pathos, and poetry which are as moving as the other stories we've done. The only typical Chekhovian device that's missing from this story is ambiguity. The last story was very unclear, but this one has a much more direct manner of expression. That was actually part of the reason I choose this one. I felt like we were all getting a little tired of stories with multiple, conflicting explanations where we have to ask "Does this character really love that one?" or "Is the perspective of this character prejudiced?" I do like Chekhov's irony and ambiguity, but I think we need a short break from it. "The Student" isn't without mystery, though. There should be some questions left after reading.

    I'll post a more formal and less rambling introduction tomorrow. The discussion should be fun. I don't think we'll go too long on this one, however. It's a short, short story (3 pages!).
    Yeah, Quark, I am glad you finally settled, and on this story. I liked this story very much. I think I have it, in an offline file; not sure if I printed it, but I will if I failed to do so, or can't find in an anthology, I will print it out. By the way, Quark, I finally did find my own Chekhov anthology book. The type on the spine was really worn, so I could not see it well, in my bookcase. It might contain the story, if I am lucky.

    I will try and find a nice photo for you to post along with the story introduction. What do you think? Illustrate Chekhov, like I do in Lawrence - makes it eye-catching! I promise I won't post a photo of tea or anything girly.

    Anyway, can't wait to read your introduction. I like that you choose this less ambiguous story. I was getting sick of getting stuck on the same old questions. Go see Lawrence, where I mention that, also. We seem to all want to judge the characters, instead of just plain observing them as human-beings, with their strenghs and weaknesses.
    Last edited by Janine; 04-28-2008 at 12:19 AM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  3. #378
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Yeah, Quark, I am glad you finally settle and on this story. I liked this story very much. I think I have it in an offline file; not sure if I printed it but I will if I failed to do so or can't find in an anthology. By the way, Quark, I finally did find my own Chekhov anthology book. The type on the spine was really worn so I could not see it well in my bookcase. It might contain the story, if I can lucky.
    I'm glad you like the story. Your book should have it. Like I say, this one is frequently included in collections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I will try and find a nice photo for you to post along with the story introduction. What do you think? Illustrate Chekhov, like I do in Lawrence - makes it eye-catching! I promise I won't post a photo of tea or anything girly.
    I have some pictures already downloaded that I can use for illustrations. I'll post them with my introduction with one on top and the other on the bottom. One picture will show the beginning of the story, and the second will portray the ending. I did this on the Aeneid thread, and I thought it worked quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Anyway, can't wait to read your introduction. I like that you choose this less ambiguous story. I was getting sick of getting stuck on the same old questions. Go see Lawrence, where I mention that, also. We seem to all want to judge the characters, instead of just plain observing them as human-beings, with their strenghs and weaknesses.
    Well I'm working on getting you guys to appreciate Chekhov's irony, but, in the meantime, I figured I would give everyone a break. This story does have some ambiguity--you just can't escape it--but it's very downplayed. I'll point it out when we get there, but I probably won't make a big deal out of it.

    The Lawrence discussion has been abuzz recently with character judgments. I don't know if that's a horrible thing, though. I'm more concerned that we're going to burn through the story in a week. It seems like we're moving at a furious pace.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  4. #379
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    I'm glad you like the story. Your book should have it. Like I say, this one is frequently included in collections.
    Doesn't appear to be in my book. but that is ok, I have it in a file and I may have printed it out since I recall reading that one....I must have printed it.

    I have some pictures already downloaded that I can use for illustrations. I'll post them with my introduction with one on top and the other on the bottom. One picture will show the beginning of the story, and the second will portray the ending. I did this on the Aeneid thread, and I thought it worked quite well.
    Quark, I am impressed; you are getting artistic like me. It must be rubbing off on you.

    Well I'm working on getting you guys to appreciate Chekhov's irony, but, in the meantime, I figured I would give everyone a break. This story does have some ambiguity--you just can't escape it--but it's very downplayed. I'll point it out when we get there, but I probably won't make a big deal out of it.
    Irony is not my favorite thing, but I am getting an education in this thread. I don't mind 'irony' as much as tons of pages stuck on one aspect of the story only. I long to talk about other aspects as well - like forshadowing and plot devices, symbolism, etc.


    The Lawrence discussion has been abuzz recently with character judgments. I don't know if that's a horrible thing, though. I'm more concerned that we're going to burn through the story in a week. It seems like we're moving at a furious pace.
    Yes, it has and I just pointed that out. It has sort of happened in here, as well at times. We seem more to concentrate on whether, we 'like or dislike' the characters or even believe them, such as in "In Love". As I said above, let's move onto other aspects of the story.
    I know the L thread seems to be going at a 'furious pace' but that is an illusion, since in actuality, the real discussion does not offically start until tomorrow. Did you read the story, Quark? Tonight, I will try and post some parts of the story text, starting at the beginning, since there is some lovely and meaningful writing there, that needs to be examined and talked about. Basically, up until now, it has just been chit-chat and a crit session concerning the characters and their morality and some sketchy thoughts on the symbolism. Mostly, poor Coutts has been put through the wringer.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  5. #380
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    It's only been a few days since we stopped discussing "About Love", but I think everyone is ready to move on anyway. The next story is called "The Student", and it's a very short, short story. We probably won't spend more then a couple of weeks on this one since it is so brief. That being said, though, the discussion should be good because this story explains a lot we've already discovered about Chekhov's writing. Here's the intro (which isn't given by me):

    "The Student"

    At the Evening by Tatarinov

    I'm in a really uncreative mood right now, so I'm going to post part of an article on the story which serves as a much better introduction than whatever I would type. This is by Donald Rayfield:

    The mystic side of Chekhov—his irrational intuition that there is meaning and beauty in the cosmos, which aligns him more to Leskov than to Tolstoy in the Russian literary tradition—is very nearly suppressed in the Melikhovo phase, preoccupied as it is with the objective and concrete. But there is one work of 1894, “The Student,” which Chekhov insisted to Bunin was his favorite and most optimistic piece. It is the only story of the Melikhovo period which links the lyricism of The Steppe with the late prose of "The Bishop," and almost the only story of Chekhov's which can be read as a parable about art. Lyrical praise of nature brings about fusion of love and reflection. For the first time Chekhov shows that he has discovered what makes art of crucial importance to humanity, and, as always when dealing with poetry or music, he sees it as its purest in an ecclesiastical setting.
    That describes perfectly the importance of this story to Chekhov and his other works; but, to make it intelligible to everyone who hasn't read Leskov or who doesn't know what the "Melikhovo" phase is, I have to add a few things. First, the Melikhovo phase is the time in Chekhov's life when he lived in the town of that name (1892-1898). The Leskov-Tolstoy compare and contrast in the first sentence is suppose to indicate that Chekhov believed in nature more than Tolstoy. Finally, the article points out that Chekhov liked to connect poetry with the church. This is true. Everything else should be understandable.

    I'll comment more and respond to Janine later on tonight hopefully.


    A Village of Maksimkovo by Tatarinov
    Last edited by Quark; 04-28-2008 at 08:25 PM.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  6. #381
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I just read the story today, and though it is short, I did find it quite interesting, and I will look forwad when we get into the discussion of it.

    I really like the pictures you used for the intro of the story.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  7. #382
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I just read the story today, and though it is short, I did find it quite interesting, and I will look forwad when we get into the discussion of it.
    Yeah, I'm not sure which way this discussion will go. It could get very technical about Chekhov's writing, or it could be a philosophical discussion of the ideas. Maybe no one will show up, and it won't be anything at all. Who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I really like the pictures you used for the intro of the story.
    I was hoping they would work. The second one I wasn't so sure about. They're supposed to be pictures of the beginning and ending of the story, but the last one is a little off. It's supposed to be Ivan looking down from a hill and seeing the village and river with the sunrise. That turned out to be a difficult picture to find. Try typing hill+village+river+sunrise into a search engine and see what comes up. I had an easier time doing this for the Aeneid thread since there are billions of paintings and statues of Dido. Plus, I didn't have to worry about giving anything away. I could show a picture of Dido on the burning pyre without having to put "SPOILER" above it. Here, in this thread, I was afraid to even explain what the pictures were without giving away the story too much. I'm glad you liked them, though. I'll have to do this more often for the intros.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

  8. #383
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Yeah, I'm not sure which way this discussion will go. It could get very technical about Chekhov's writing, or it could be a philosophical discussion of the ideas. Maybe no one will show up, and it won't be anything at all. Who knows?
    Wow, Quark! !
    You deserve those 4 thumbs up. You did a fantastic job on this intro and it looks very creative. I like the way you centered everything; I am going to steal that idea for the next Lawrence story...looks like a webpage....very nice, professional.

    About the discussion, I will be here!...if I am not quite here, I will be close by always...seems others are certainly interested, too. Your fine introduction made me want to re-read the story, with a new perspective. Good job, Quark!


    I was hoping they would work.
    The photos work perfectly. I like the bit of contrast of the two. I think the first one could almost be appropriate for the Lawrence thread.
    I should have posted a house with cascading white aylssum, shouldn't I, Antiquarian? I had not thought of that before.

    Gee, now I can't wait to see what you come up with for the story after this one.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  9. #384
    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quark, I read the story again today and will try to comment briefly now on the first paragraph and the impression I have of this as the introduction of the setting of the story:

    At first the weather was fine and still. The thrushes were calling, and in the swamps close by something alive droned pitifully with a sound like blowing into an empty bottle. A snipe flew by, and the shot aimed at it rang out with a gay, resounding note in the spring air. But when it began to get dark in the forest a cold, penetrating wind blew inappropriately from the east, and everything sank into silence. Needles of ice stretched across the pools, and it felt cheerless, remote, and lonely in the forest. There was a whiff of winter.
    Firstly, I notice how the weather begins with the fact that it 'was fine and still', and then by the end of the paragraph, our whole impression has been altered to the reverse, ending with the line "There was a whiff of winter.

    Several phrases starkly stood out to me, also. One is the second statement: "The thrushes were calling, and in the swamps close by something
    alive droned pitifully with a sound like a blowing into an empty bottle."

    I wondered what you thought of that statement - does it signify anything in particular? or symbolic?
    This is curious to me, even though I live by a lake, and sometimes perceive the disturbing sounds of nature, along with the happy ones. Also, I observe the 'food-chain' in action all the time, and find it sad or evoking a melancholy state sometimes, but then one always has to say "well, that is the way of nature" and just ignore accept it as a truth. Still this conjures up an image to me, when I was out late at night in our yard, and I heard a horrid screeching sound and then saw a large bird flying overhead with something pretty large in it's talons. It made me shudder.
    I am not a hunter, so the 'joy' of the shot did not thrill me too much, but I can see where that is appropriate to the story, and it is interesting to me, that by placing this line about the shot, just so in the begining of the story, the idea of 'man' is introduced into this scene of natural/animal elements; maybe linking man to the natural animal world of instinct? What do you think?
    The last statements seem to sink the story mood into one of darkness, coldness and silence - these words are particularly melancholy and sad, "cheerless, remote, and lonely".
    One paragraph and the mood of the story is immediately set. That is quite well done, I think and beautifully written.

    What struck me, throughout the story, is the number of times the words 'death' or 'dead' and 'darkness' and 'cold' are so often repeated.

    Hey, Quark, I thought this was going to be a somewhat happy story? I know, it ends on a positive note....
    Last edited by Janine; 04-29-2008 at 11:58 PM.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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    The first paragraph of “The Student” sounds like a life cycle to me . “At the beginning, it’s comfortable and friendly. Enjoy your game! Shoot something alive for fun! But wait, your day, eventually will come to an end, and it’ll be frizzing cold closer to the end of your life!”

  11. #386
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    I have mulled over this paragraph trying to decipher the meaning behind it. I did think it was a rather beautiful paragraph and painted a very lovely picture.

    At first the weather was fine and still. The thrushes were calling, and in the swamps close by something alive droned pitifully with a sound like blowing in an empty bottle
    I think this does really set up the scene of being out, isolated in nature, with only the sounds of the wildlife around you.

    I did find the use of the word "pitifully" interesting here, also the face that it pointed out that it was "something alive" as presumably, if it is making a noise it is indeed alive.

    I also found the imagery of the "empty bottle" to be interesting.

    A snipe flew by, and the shot aimed at it rang out with a gay, resounding note in the spring air.
    This I find very interesting, because as soon as man is introduced into the scene, with the presence of the shot, everything becomes less dreary, and it is given a more uplifting and cheerful appearance, using words like a gay note in the spring air.

    This paints a less dreary picture than that pitiful droning cry.

    But when it began to get dark in the forest a cold, penetrating wind blew inappropriately from the east, and everything sank into silence. Needles of ice stretched across the pools, and it feels cheerless, remote, and lonely in the forest. There was a whiff of winter.
    I really liked the use of the word "inappropriately" it is almost like scolding the wind from coming to intrude upon this happy spring scene.

    I loved the words "sank into silence"

    And I could not help but to think of death in this scene, as soon as the shot is fired at the bird, suddenly we get images of cold, darkness, winter.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  12. #387
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Sorry I couldn't post yesterday. I sat down to write something late last night, but I was too preoccupied--and tired--to be anywhere close to coherent. It's always encouraging to see, though, that people are carrying on the conversation without me. It's especially encouraging to see people considering the story so deeply, too. I like what everyone has posted so far, and I'll try to add to it without screwing it up. First,

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I notice how the weather begins with the fact that it 'was fine and still', and then by the end of the paragraph, our whole impression has been altered to the reverse, ending with the line "There was a whiff of winter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I really liked the use of the word "inappropriately" it is almost like scolding the wind from coming to intrude upon this happy spring scene.
    The cold wind is inappropriate because it's so out of place for the time of year and the spirit of Easter. Both spring and Easter are connected with ideas of growth and rebirth, but the wind is stifling. It creates a stillness which stops the progress of the season, and we regress into morbid winter. That makes it "inappropriate" to the superficial understanding of the student. At this point in the story, he's ignorant to the greater meaning of these changes--so is the reader, of course. The wind is then "inappropriate." The wind does two things which help the story, though. First, it creates a hushed silence which makes us expectant of something important. Second, it corresponds with the mood of the biblical story. The day Peter disowns Christ is cold, and the morbid, wintry environment reminds us of the misery and death associated with the crucifixion. Remember that the student realizes that "the past is linked with the present by an unbroken chain of events." The structure of the story is based on that epiphany, and much of the content of the story is mirrored or repeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Several phrases starkly stood out to me, also. One is the second statement: "The thrushes were calling, and in the swamps close by something alive droned pitifully with a sound like a blowing into an empty bottle."
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I did find the use of the word "pitifully" interesting here, also the face that it pointed out that it was "something alive" as presumably, if it is making a noise it is indeed alive.
    Good observation. The pitiful droning sound is a little strange in this scene where everything is happy and fine. I think this supposed to indicate the suffering and misery below the surface that is central to many of Chekhov's stories. If you've read "Gooseberries", for example, you might remember how the happiness of that story's main character is distraction away from the greater suffering in the world. In that story, Chekhov uses the pattering sound of the rain to refer to that misery. Here, Chekhov is using the droning sound of something vaguely alive to show the presence of that unhappiness. Later in "The Student", we'll run into a beaten-down woman and an unfortunate widow who are both quite unhappy. The droning in the swamp is a reminder to the student who's strolling through a happy scene that misery still exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlgaG View Post
    The first paragraph of “The Student” sounds like a life cycle to me . “At the beginning, it’s comfortable and friendly. Enjoy your game! Shoot something alive for fun! But wait, your day, eventually will come to an end, and it’ll be frizzing cold closer to the end of your life!”
    Welcome to the forum OlgaG. You picked a good discussion to join in on. Chekhov's is possibly the best short story writer, and this is one of his most characteristic works. I hope you stick around for the rest of the conversation.

    The first paragraph is reminiscent of the life-cycle. The fine weather and people shooting for sport reads like a description of youth. Yet, when the cold wind comes in from the east, it seems like mortality is not far away. Eventually, I think the representation of the life-cycle becomes a symbol for the constant death and rebirth of beauty and truth which the student believes guides life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Muse View Post
    I have mulled over this paragraph trying to decipher the meaning behind it. I did think it was a rather beautiful paragraph and painted a very lovely picture.
    The story is quite poetic throughout. The only dull part is perhaps the student's biblical tale--which is supposed to be poorly-told.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Hey, Quark, I thought this was going to be a somewhat happy story? I know, it ends on a positive note....
    I know the story isn't as cheerful as I promised, so you'll have to settle for optimistic. It actually ends with some hope.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Sorry I couldn't post yesterday. I sat down to write something late last night, but I was too preoccupied--and tired--to be anywhere close to coherent. It's always encouraging to see, though, that people are carrying on the conversation without me. It's especially encouraging to see people considering the story so deeply, too. I like what everyone has posted so far, and I'll try to add to it without screwing it up. First,
    Since you address most of Dark Muse's post I skipped to yours. I will check back to see if I missed anything. Welcome also, OlgaG. I hope you enjoy the discussion and the entire forum.
    Don't appologise for not posting yesterday - quite understandable; anyway, Quark, you saw the Lawrence thread - that is keeping me busy enough to try and keep up with. Honestly, at this point, I am totally overwhelmed in there. I am not sure how I am going to catch up either.
    Glad you liked what everyone posted so far. Thanks.


    The cold wind is inappropriate because it's so out of place for the time of year and the spirit of Easter. Both spring and Easter are connected with ideas of growth and rebirth, but the wind is stifling. It creates a stillness which stops the progress of the season, and we regress into morbid winter. That makes it "inappropriate" to the superficial understanding of the student. At this point in the story, he's ignorant to the greater meaning of these changes--so is the reader, of course. The wind is then "inappropriate." The wind does two things which help the story, though. First, it creates a hushed silence which makes us expectant of something important. Second, it corresponds with the mood of the biblical story. The day Peter disowns Christ is cold, and the morbid, wintry environment reminds us of the misery and death associated with the crucifixion. Remember that the student realizes that "the past is linked with the present by an unbroken chain of events." The structure of the story is based on that epiphany, and much of the content of the story is mirrored or repeated
    .

    Good commentary and I agree the weather is not synonomous with the idea of Easter and springtime. I like you other ideas and had not thought of some things you mention here. I also like your references to the day Christ was disowned by Peter and other referenes to the bible story. That is good about 'the misery and death' and the link in the cycle of life. Yes, it is an epiphany indeed.


    Good observation. The pitiful droning sound is a little strange in this scene where everything is happy and fine. I think this supposed to indicate the suffering and misery below the surface that is central to many of Chekhov's stories. If you've read "Gooseberries", for example, you might remember how the happiness of that story's main character is distraction away from the greater suffering in the world. In that story, Chekhov uses the pattering sound of the rain to refer to that misery. Here, Chekhov is using the droning sound of something vaguely alive to show the presence of that unhappiness. Later in "The Student", we'll run into a beaten-down woman and an unfortunate widow who are both quite unhappy. The droning in the swamp is a reminder to the student who's strolling through a happy scene that misery still exists.
    Good, and I agree with all you pointed out. Very well put!
    Does that pitiful sound also relate to the hunting in that they both encompass this idea of the cycle of life and death?


    Welcome to the forum OlgaG. You picked a good discussion to join in on. Chekhov's is possibly the best short story writer, and this is one of his most characteristic works. I hope you stick around for the rest of the conversation.
    Well, that he is but then again, so is D.H.Lawrence an extremely fine short story author. If you have time OlgaG, check out our thread, too.
    It is funny - this is like the dualing short story threads, Quark!


    The first paragraph is reminiscent of the life-cycle. The fine weather and people shooting for sport reads like a description of youth. Yet, when the cold wind comes in from the east, it seems like mortality is not far away. Eventually, I think the representation of the life-cycle becomes a symbol for the constant death and rebirth of beauty and truth which the student believes guides life.
    I do, too....totally agreed on this part.


    The story is quite poetic throughout. The only dull part is perhaps the student's biblical tale--which is supposed to be poorly-told.
    Yes, this is more poetic than others we have read so far. I like the writing style and the natural elements. Yes, but I did not find that part dull at all.

    I know the story isn't as cheerful as I promised, so you'll have to settle for optimistic. It actually ends with some hope.
    Oh yeah -- real cheerful, Quark ..... Granted, there may be a tiny spark of hope at the end.
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  14. #389
    The Poetic Warrior Dark Muse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Good observation. The pitiful droning sound is a little strange in this scene where everything is happy and fine. I think this supposed to indicate the suffering and misery below the surface that is central to many of Chekhov's stories. If you've read "Gooseberries", for example, you might remember how the happiness of that story's main character is distraction away from the greater suffering in the world. In that story, Chekhov uses the pattering sound of the rain to refer to that misery. Here, Chekhov is using the droning sound of something vaguely alive to show the presence of that unhappiness. Later in "The Student", we'll run into a beaten-down woman and an unfortunate widow who are both quite unhappy. The droning in the swamp is a reminder to the student who's strolling through a happy scene that misery still exists.
    Yes I got the feeling of the suggestion of missery or suffring from that imager, I also found the imagery of the empty bottle interesting, and wondered if the fact that bottle was indeed empty was not ment to be representive of something. It does kind of relate and reflect to ideas that will later be presented in the story, with the pair of mother and daughter widows.

    Or perhpas the Student himself, at this point is "empty" becasue as you said in this stay he is ignorant and well currently he is only concered with his sport of shooting and not really thinking about the greater questions of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    The story is quite poetic throughout. The only dull part is perhaps the student's biblical tale--which is supposed to be poorly-told.
    I was a bit confused on the signifigance of that particular story, and how that story had led him to his conclusion of the relationship between the past and the present, and I was not certain just how that story connected to the widows or why they would relate to that story.

    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before. ~ Edgar Allan Poe

  15. #390
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Quark, you saw the Lawrence thread - that is keeping me busy enough to try and keep up with. Honestly, at this point, I am totally overwhelmed in there.
    We've never had this many people involved before, so it's going to be a little difficult until we figure out a good way to go about this. I tried the post chunks of the story method last time, but that didn't seem to work. This story is a little easier since it's only three pages, and I don't have to keep people on one part of the story since there only is one part. The L discussion is lot harder this time around because the story is so multi-part. Everyone will naturally be interested in something different than everyone else. It may be difficult to focus in that situation. I don't know, of course, because I haven't seen all the posts yet. But, I would imagine trying to reply to all the posts--which have different ideas--would get tiring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    I also like your references to the day Christ was disowned by Peter and other referenes to the bible story.
    There are three parts to the story (sunset, the student's story, sunrise), and each is connect to the others through repeated images, sounds, or actions. It supposed to show the link between the past, future, and present. The student realizes that there is truth behind everything that is omni-present, and the environment around him is meant to be a demonstration of that.

    The interesting thing about these repetitions, though, is that they are not all the same. The beginning of the story has a merry, upbeat mood while the scene at night is morbidly depressing. Finally, the ending is encouraging and hopeful. Even though the beginning of the story and the middle of the story have birds calling (thrushes and cocks, respectively), these parts of the story are incredibly different. I have a few ideas for why this is, but I haven't picked the one I want to put forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Good, and I agree with all you pointed out. Very well put! Does that pitiful sound also relate to the hunting in that they both encompass this idea of the cycle of life and death?
    I interpreted the hunter's shot and the pitiful sound to be opposing moods more than opposite side of the life-cycle. The "gay" sound of the rifle indicates joviality while the droning noise in the swamp is solemn and sort of unsettling. The first sound is blissfully enjoying the moment and the other is cognizant of the sadness elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Well, that he is but then again, so is D.H.Lawrence an extremely fine short story author. If you have time OlgaG, check out our thread, too. It is funny - this is like the dualing short story threads, Quark!
    Yes, Lawrence was a fine short story writer. In fact, the one you're doing in the thread right now is one of the better stories we've read so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Yes, but I did not find that part dull at all.
    I'll address this point tomorrow. Right now, my short answer is that the student's telling of the story is meant to be clichéd. The student's rendering of the story is a clumsy simplification and told with odd language. Chekhov's audience may have found this dull. A century later, and in translation, we don't really pick up on this. I will post more on this tomorrow to make it clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janine View Post
    Oh yeah -- real cheerful, Quark ..... Granted, there may be a tiny spark of hope at the end.
    Only a tiny speck of hope? It ends with him discovering that truth and beauty govern the world, and that his life will have happiness and meaning. A bit more than a speck of hope, I think.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

    --"Birds in the Night" by Paul Verlaine (1844-1896). Join the discussion here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...5&goto=newpost

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