D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Dark Muse]

Dark Muse, you always don't like someone - usually the woman I noticed. How funny you don't hate the man this time or did you say you did? Now you have company since Antiquarian doesn't like anyone in this story. .

LOL, I said I hated Mr. Coutts in this story. He instantly struck me as just being completely full of himself. I did not really care about him at all. It was the other characters I found interesting mostly Winifred

I would have to direly disagree with Dark Muse, that this is a poorly written work. I think a lot of critics would just cringe, if they heard that. This story was one of Lawrence's most popular and acclaimed ones, I believe...but I will look up further, what has been said and written about it and post some commentary directly; so don't just take my word for that.

Well I am not one to be intimidated by what critics think. I like to be my own judge. And I perosnaly did not feel as if this story was very well written compared to the others we have read. Perhaps the story will grow on me more when I get the chance to read it again.

[Quark]

Janine. Great choice!! This is my favourite of all the Lawrence stories I have read until now

Honestly, I have to admit this was not one of my favorite of the stories we have read.

I did not like anyone in the story.

The strong reactions have piqued my curiosity. This is already making out to be the most controversial story Janine's picked so far. I'll read it tonight and see what I think.

I hope I am not attacked for picking this story...no throwing of rotten tomatoes at me...

Well this is one of the more well-known stories from Lawrence so there must be something noteworthy about it. Everyone enjoys the images and symbolism, maybe it's just the characters they don't like--and the laughing.

I am beginning to think we should have an opinion poll at the top of each story, so we can vote on how we view the charcters such as 'Hate, Like, Undecided, Love.' Hey, you two, this is not the 'Love, Hate' thread.

That would be fun, but I think we're a little too nuanced in our opinions for just four choices. There are different degrees and kinds of loathing, and I do want to be a specific as possible. Hopefully the characters won't be loathsome at all, though. I just got through a Vonnegut novel where all the characters are selfish and sleazy. I could use a few likable people in my next story.

I know Quark is still mulling over the choice for Chekhov ; I wish he would decide soon. I don't want to take my library book back, until he does.

Ha, first you wanted the discussion to go on for multiple months, and now you tell me I need to pick a story before the first month is out. You may just have to wait a few days. I'll try to pick one this weekend.

[Dark Muse]

I think it is mostly the dialogue within the story that I found atrocious. And that was a good portion of the story. The way the dialogue was written I just found a bit obnoxious at times. For the passages and the imagery, and such, and the part of the story that was not dialogue I did rather enjoy within this story.

And I did not hate all the chars. Just Mr. Coutts, and well Laura was annoying, but Winni I actually find quite interesting.

So I thought I would post some parts of the story I actually did like :

And don't worry I won't go far ahead, I will keep it close to the beginning.

The day was dying out. One by one the arc lamps fluttered or leaped alight, the strand of copper overhead glistened against the dark sky that now was deepening to the colour of monkshood. The tram-car dipped as it ran, seeming to exult. As it came clear of the houses, the young man, looking west, saw the evening star advance, a bright thing approaching from a long way off, as if it had been bathing in the surf of daylight, and now was walking shorewards to the night. He greeted the naked star with a bow of his head, his heart surging as the car leaped.

I really enjoyed this passage. I thought it was beautifully written, and I loved the imagery it produced.

I particularly like the last lines:

a bright thing approaching from a long way off, as if it had been bathing in the surf of daylight, and now was walking shorewards to the night.

And I loved the "naked star"

This also made me think of Two Bluebirds in a way. As it spoke of him "looking to the west" and than later on he begins to thank of his wife whom is back in the north. It is sort of the reverse of the scene with the wife in Two Blue Birds.

Above the coloruring of the afterglow the blade of the new moon hung sharp and keen. Something recoiled in him.

"It is like a knife to be used in a sacrifice," he said to himself. Then, secretly: "I wonder for whom"

I loved these lines, and found it interesting the way in which it is depicted as a new moon because the importance that phase of the moon plays in witchcraft.

I find the question of who the sacrificial victim is to be intriguing.

At first the obvious answer seemed to me to be Connie, but in further reading the story, in some regards I think it could also be either him or perhaps Winifred in a way.

Soon the car was running full-tilt from the shadow to the fume of yellow light at the terminu, where shope on shop and lamp beyond lamp heaped golden fire on the floor of the blue night. The car, like an eager dog, ran home, sniffing with pleasure the fume of light.

I just loved this.

[Janine]

Good start, Dark Muse - thanks for posting that and for not advancing too far into the story. I read some commentary about these passages and these images in the Michael Black book, but presently I don't have time to type them out or post them. I will do so later. I am going out now for a time and will return later tonight. I also loved those descriptions and they do relate to witchcraft and forshadow things to come in the story. Good observations on your part.
I wrote so much above your post - two posts and now I am all tired out to think and write anymore now. See you all later on.

[Dark Muse]

One of the things I did greatly enjoy was all the little witchcraft inuendo throughout the story. And I did find a lot of the images of passing from light into darkness to be a bit of forehsadow. Also I found very interesting how this story was set specially in the night. Most of the other stories thus far that I have read, seemed to have mostly day time imagery and settings to them.

For anyone else who is currious, as I was, here are some pictures of monkshood which I looked up:

[Janine]

Those are beautiful! I love having some images in this thread. I love that intense lavender. Did you notice I changed my sign picture to lilacs - they are out in my neighborhood right now and they are my favorite flower, they smell so good.
Thanks, Dark Muse, for posting these great photos. I was going to post another photo I found online later on, of this gorgeous poppie (anemone) field in England.

Yes, how true - so many contrasting light and dark images and the idea of the story taking place at night is an interesting one. I can't think, either of one we did that dealt with a nightime setting. I am a night person so this suits me just fine. I can only recall that one scene in "Women in Love" called 'Moony' that was set in the night-time hours with much darkness, only illuminated by the moon and stars. I simply loved that chapter.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, I thought they were very pretty flowers. Though it does seem like an odd color for the sky to be described as. It is hard to imagine a sky that color. And well a part of me, could not help but think given the nature of the story that there perhaps not some signifigance to the flower name itself "monkshood" I do not think that was just randomly, or coincidental.

I will be looking forwrd to those picutres. And yes, I did notice the flowers you use in your sig now. They are quite lovely.

[Virgil]

Goodness gracious, how did I fall this far behind?

[Janine]

Goodness gracious, how did I fall this far behind?

How funny, Virgil, did you see that I summoned you? Then you arrived shortly after. First I summoned Quark, and he appeared; time for islandclimber to return, too. I really know how to reel you all back in with my magic wand!

Yeah, Virgil, technically we are not suppose to be discussing this until Monday, but you see how hard it is to hold back the flood-gates! Hahah - lots of enthusiasm here and already some contraversy so it should make for a great discussion this time around. I told them, if they don't like the story to toss the rotten tomatoes at you and not me!

V - did you get my PM last night? I was kind of upset and probably sounded angry.

[Dark Muse]

It is probably my fault Virgil. LOL I got impatiant and ended up reading the story 12 o clock last night instead of waiting to read it over the weakend.

Here are some more flowers from the story. You can tell that I have nothing better to do. Which is actually pretty amazing, but I am caught up on everything now.

These are some alyssum flowers which are mentioned when Coutts first arrives at the house of Mrs. Braithwaite.

Funny thing is, that even after multiple readings I kept thinking that it said Asylum flowers.

[Janine]

It is probably my fault Virgil. LOL I got impatiant and ended up reading the story 12 o clock last night instead of waiting to read it over the weakend.

Not just you but everyone. Soon as I post the story name we all get impatient to begin; I know that is true...and it is fine. Virgil, we did not get too far into the story yet at all. You can easily catch up. Mostly it has just been a little banter between us, a little debate about the characters and overall impression of the story.


Oh, these are gorgeous! Thanks so much. How they liven up the thread and we are all in such a 'springy' mood. I just love alyssum. I always try to grow it but it seems the white is the hardiest and will last the longest for me; but I want the lavender and blue colors. Weren't the flowers cascading or something from the walls? I have to look that up now. I recall it was such a lovely passage.

Dark Muse, glad you are getting a little 'down time' and rest. I have actually, seen the sky the color of those monkshead flowers - like a lavender blue, periwinkle. Haven't you truly ever seen the sky that color? Maybe in the dawn or sunset, I saw it with streaks of that color. Who knows; maybe it was from the polution in my area, what a thought... Anyway, back in England, Lawrence may have perceived the sky, exactly this color since there was a purer environment then, although the coal mines would have probably effected the sky color, in the area he lived in growing up. He may have left there and probably the coastal areas would have cleaner air and beautiful vivid sunsets. I imagine they still do.

[Dark Muse]

I do not think I have ever seen the sky quite that color before.

Here is the passage with the alyssum.

Coutts flung away uphill. He had forgotton he was tired. From the distance he could distinguish the house, by the broad white cloth of alyssum flowers that hung down the garden walls. He ran up the steep path to the door, smelling the hyacinths in the dark, watching for the pale fluttering of daffodils and the steadier show of white crocusses on the grassy banks.

the broad white cloth of alyssum flowers that hung down the garden walls.

When I first read this, it put me in the mind of an altar cloth.

And while I am at it, here is some crousses as well:

[Janine]

Very pretty indeed, DM!
Quark is going to say this is turning into a 'girly flower garden' thread!

[Dark Muse]

LOL he better not, I take personal offence to being called girly

[Janine]

Gorgeous photos. I'm especially partial to lilacs and alyssum. And peonies. LOL

Oh yes, so am I, Antiquarian...I need to go and pick those lilacs today before it is past their season. There season does not last that long.
Dark Muse, those photos are lovely of the crocus. I like white flowers -they can be so dramatic in the yard. Right now, our white dogwood is out and it looks so bright at night - it looks like peddles of snow.

I have been reading a terrific commentary in my Michael Black book; it is specifically on this story (about 3, 4 pages), and I think now I have a clearer understanding of the symbolism and the idea(s) behind the story, even the significance of the title. I will try to copy (scan or type) some of this commentary/analysis for you all to read and mull over. I don't think I can accomplish posting this until Monday, when we officially start the discussion.

I may be really busy today and tomorrow. I have things to do and not all computer. Also, they said we might have thunderstorms, in which case, I will have to unplug and so cannot use the computer. We had some last night and I was shut down for a short while, but it was late already. So if I don't appear online tonight it is due to thunderstorms in my area. I don't take any chances anymore since I left my computer on one day and lightning surge went through out wires and blew out my DSL. I was without a computer for a week or more, so it is not worth it.