D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

[Dark Muse]

I fear I do not feel as if I have enough background information to weigh in on the Lawrence issue, but based upon what I have read. I would have to say that I somewhat agree with both of you. I do not agree will of the ideas that Lawrence personally had, from what little I do know and understand, regarding women. But I will say within his stories he often seems to portray very strong and independent women, and deals often with the issues of women's quest for equality, and the issue of the male driven world. Though he might not personally agree with these ideas, within his writing he seems to understand the struggle of women to try and find some way within the world, separate from the need for dependency upon men, and their struggle to find their own path.

Anyway, I just had to pose these passages, because I absolutely loved this depiction of the woman within the story.

She went quietly along the hedge, somewhat wolf-like in her prowl, a broad strong woman in an expensive mustard-colored jersey and cream-colorued pleated skirt. Her legs were long and shapely, her shoes were expansive.

With a curious wolf-like stealth she turned the hedge and looked across the small shaded lawn where the daises grew impertinently, 'He' was reclining in a coloured hammock under the pink-flowering horse-chestnut tree, dressed in white serge with a fine yellow-coloured linen shirt. His elegant hand dropped over the side of the hammock and beat a sort of vague rhythm to his words. At a little wicker table the little secretary, in a green knitted frock, bent her dark head over her note-book, and diligently made those awful shorthand marks. He was not difficult to take down, as he dictated slowly, and kept a sort of rhythm, beating time with his dangling hand.

I also found it interesting the attention to the clothing which was given, and the use of color. I found it interesting how the secretary was given green, almost as if to make her "blend in" with the garden surroundings. While the husband and the wife are made to stand out in stark contrast to the garden with him in yellow, and her in mustard and cream.

"No!" said the little secretary, gazing brightly round, her eyes half-blinded with work. But she saw the queer, powerful, elegant, wolf-like figure of the wife, behind her, and terror came into her eyes.

"I did!" said the wife, stepping forward with those curious, shapely she-wolf legs of hers under the very short skirt.

"Aren't they extraordinarily vicious little beasts?" said he

"Extraordinarily!" she re-echoed stooping and picking up a little breast-feather. "Extraordinarily! See how the feathers fly!"

And she got the feather on the tip of her finger, and looked at it. Then she looked at the secretary, then she looked at him. She had a queer, were-wolf expression between her brows.

I loved this scene. And I found it interesting how things progressed from being wolf-like, to a she-wolf, and finally, a werewolf.

[Janine]

Virgil, I will have to answer your long post tomorrow. I don't have time today or tonight. I did however do some online research on Lawrence and feminism. I think if you run the same search you find some great articles and there is one site that lists so many of the great woman feminists who were influenced by Lawrence. I also found this incredible study and article from Assiut University which was a PDF but which I could print out. It is a long article but I noticed when printing it it does mention some of the short stories we recently discussed. I can't wait to read this study. It is quite long but worth printing out. Here is the link if you want to check it out, too:

http://docs.ksu.edu.sa/PDF/Articles51/Article510647.pdf

It begins:

This is a theoretical investigation of feminist Realism in the modern fiction of Virginia Woolf and D.H.Lawrence. My intention is to draw some innovative textual conclusions out of the context of their novels to prove their radical feminist implications. What distinquishes these two writers and their novels is a particular kind of fidelity to reality which is not different from their feminist visions. Thus, feminist realism is extensively studied and elaborated though the works of those two writers. The patriarchal realism (social realism) and the female reality is scrutinized to explain the difference between the world as men have constructed and the reality that is lived, imagined and expressed by women.

This article should be quite interesting and revealing, as well. I really excited to find it. Dark Muse, this will probably interest you, also (thinking of your class), and any others who will find the time to read it.

[Quark]

I agree with Virgil that Lawrence was profoundly anti-feminist, but at the same time I agree with Janine that his works can be enjoyed by women--and not just for their superb language. While being fervently against women's rights, he was still an honest observer. His desire for realism often outweighed his inclination toward polemic. Sons and Lovers, while containing the harsh invective against radical feminists like Clara, gives voice to the plight of women who are trapped in degrading circumstances--like Miriam. Lawrence even lets her argue against her situation herself in a speech about the limited possibilities for women compared to men. It's important to remember that his anti-feminist views were more prescriptive than descriptive. Most of his arguments on women are about what they could become and not what they actually were. A feminist can get through a novel by Lawrence because it's his record of what "is" that's printed on the page, and that analysis is often quite sapient.

None of this, though, should obscure Lawrence's real opinion of the female personality. In this story it comes into the fore, and I think we should be clear on what's being attacked. I was reading an article in the South Atlantic Review this morning which was very appropriate for this story--even though it's talking about another. It quoted a section of Katherine Anne Porter's essay "A Wreath for the Gamekeeper" which goes like this,

[Lawrence] has expressed it ferociously over and over. Women must be kept apart, for they contaminate each other. They are to be redeemed one by through the sexual offices of a man, who seems to have no other function in her life, nor she in his. One of the greatest enlightenments of Lady Chatterley after her experience of the sentimental obscenities of her gamekeeper is to see other women clearly, women sexually less lucky than she, and to realize that they are all horrible. She can't get away fast enough, and back to the embraces of her fancy man.

Okay, maybe that's an overstatement, but the point is a good one. In Lawrence's stories women are redeemed (fulfilled may be the better word) through sexual relationships, and they are at odds with one another. Realizing this is an important part of understanding Lawrence's satire. Virgil already brought up the possibility that the satire is directed at the inversion of natural gender roles in modern marriage. I think this fits with what we know about the story and L's views. The woman is not being redeemed through sex with her husband. Instead, she denies that she even wants to kiss him. Meanwhile she loathes the secretary for reasons she can't understand, and the husband is cold and ironic. From what we know about Lawrence on women and Lawrence on "blood consciousness", it's easy to see where husband and wife deviate from the right course.


Dark Muse, I hope people don't overlook your last post. You made some good points. I'll try and respond later.

[Janine]

I agree with Virgil that Lawrence was profoundly anti-feminist, but at the same time I agree with Janine that his works can be enjoyed by women--and not just for their superb language. While being fervently against women's rights, he was still an honest observer. His desire for realism often outweighed his inclination toward polemic. Sons and Lovers, while containing the harsh invective against radical feminists like Clara, gives voice to the plight of women who are trapped in degrading circumstances--like Miriam. Lawrence even lets her argue against her situation herself in a speech about the limited possibilities for women compared to men. It's important to remember that his anti-feminist views were more prescriptive than descriptive. Most of his arguments on women are about what they could become and not what they actually were. A feminist can get through a novel by Lawrence because it's his record of what "is" that's printed on the page, and that analysis is often quite sapient.

Don't agree at all - "Lawrence was profoundly anti-feminist" - this is a false statement, based on no real evidence to back it up. If you show me grounds (facts) and not just interpretation of Lawrence's work, I might consider it true. I don't think consistenly, Lawrence was anything of the sort. Read the article I posted above. I have been reading it. First off, this person doing this critical study, talks about "Sons and Lovers" and points out that Lawrence's female characters, who want feminism, are not wholely committed to it and therefore, they fail. Clara returns to her husband; Miriam is trapped in her situtation. "his anti-feminist views were more prescriptive than descriptive". what do you mean by this?

None of this, though, should obscure Lawrence's real opinion of the female personality. In this story it comes into the fore, and I think we should be clear on what's being attacked. I was reading an article in the South Atlantic Review this morning which was very appropriate for this story--even though it's talking about another. It quoted a section of Katherine Anne Porter's essay "A Wreath for the Gamekeeper" which goes like this,

The article excerpt - horrid and based on nothing! What a mean scathing remark to make. Who was this woman?

Okay, maybe that's an overstatement, but the point is a good one. In Lawrence's stories women are redeemed (fulfilled may be the better word) through sexual relationships, and they are at odds with one another. Realizing this is an important part of understanding Lawrence's satire. Virgil already brought up the possibility that the satire is directed at the inversion of natural gender roles in modern marriage. I think this fits with what we know about the story and L's views. The woman is not being redeemed through sex with her husband. Instead, she denies that she even wants to kiss him. Meanwhile she loathes the secretary for reasons she can't understand, and the husband is cold and ironic. From what we know about Lawrence on women and Lawrence on "blood consciousness", it's easy to see where husband and wife deviate from the right course.

Slightly?..just slightly an overstatement, indeed! I am seeing at this woman's remarks. How is her point a good one? How many of Lawrence's short stories have you read, Quark? I don't agree with you on this generalisation at all and using this current story is hardly the example to hold up. This story is a satire; it might even be a quick sketch that Lawrence wrote off the cuff one day to amuse himself. I don't know since I have not confered with Lawrence himself. I don't see two woman fighting in a story as making a man an anti-feminist. Yikes, there are tons of authors who explore similar situtations and triangles between the sexes. Why does everyone target Lawrence? How does "blood consciousness" and his ideas on this make Lawrence anti-feminist? You have really lost me here. "blood consciousness" involves both sexes and the union of them and not male dominance as I see it.
In my final remarks, I want to say that this whole feminist, anti-feminist question is a very complicated business and we all need to do more research on it before we can make sound judgements about Lawrence in relationship to the movement. I read one commentator who said he began the movement or greatly advanced it. Many feminists authors felt Lawrence's work influenced them. How do you account for that fact? That includes you, Virgil, as well.

Quark, after reviewing your post I think I misunderstood some of the things you were saying; you did not seem to be totally refuting what I had said. Sorry about that; I didn't mean to out and out, attack you on this issue. I just feel so strongly that 'some' feminists, hardly 'all' feminists, back in Lawrence's day labeled Lawrence an 'anti-feminist' and this became a real yoke around his neck and damaged his reputation greatly. One could have done the same to other authors, who show a strong male image and a weaker woman one, being dominated by males. I just think this whole idea of Lawrence being a truly anti-feminist and saying it in this day and age, turns many people off to his literature and that is such a pity. I really think Lawrence got a bad rap on this one. I don't see any of the characters in Lawrence's work without weaknesses and vulnerabilities and so I count them all equal, men and woman, and as human beings struggling within different and unique situations, so they all are different.

I fear I do not feel as if I have enough background information to weigh in on the Lawrence issue, but based upon what I have read. I would have to say that I somewhat agree with both of you. I do not agree will of the ideas that Lawrence personally had, from what little I do know and understand, regarding women. But I will say within his stories he often seems to portray very strong and independent women, and deals often with the issues of women's quest for equality, and the issue of the male driven world. Though he might not personally agree with these ideas, within his writing he seems to understand the struggle of women to try and find some way within the world, separate from the need for dependency upon men, and their struggle to find their own path.

Dark Muse, I appreciate your neutral stance in this issue and the fact you admit to not knowing enough to make a true assessment. I know much about Lawrence and yet this still led me to go and research more on the specific question of feminism or anti-feminism. I found quite a number of article and references on the net and this surprised me greatly - most of what I found were in defense of Lawrence actually being a feminist. He certainly influenced a great number of feminist women authors and he had many many feminists friends who great admired him. So it never figures to me exactly who labeled him an anti-feminist. If you have a change check out the article online. You don't have to read all to get the gist of what the researcher is getting at. It even talks about Bertie in "The Blind Man" and gives some good insight into that story.

Anyway, I just had to pose these passages, because I absolutely loved this depiction of the woman within the story.

I too, love passages like this one where woman in Lawrence's writing are shown as being very strong individuals. We can site many throughout his large body of work, which further supports my ideas of his actually being very much for woman's rights and equality, and sympathetic to the plight of the woman. Many of his novels revolve around the woman characters. I can see where some of his writings would offend the stauch feminists, but is Lawrence showing situations where woman are being put down by men and saying it is the correct way to live or behave? This I am totally doubtful of. I think we are missing the whole point, if we simply categorize Lawrence's work as 'anti-feminist'.

[Virgil]

I fear I do not feel as if I have enough background information to weigh in on the Lawrence issue, but based upon what I have read. I would have to say that I somewhat agree with both of you. I do not agree will of the ideas that Lawrence personally had, from what little I do know and understand, regarding women. But I will say within his stories he often seems to portray very strong and independent women, and deals often with the issues of women's quest for equality, and the issue of the male driven world. Though he might not personally agree with these ideas, within his writing he seems to understand the struggle of women to try and find some way within the world, separate from the need for dependency upon men, and their struggle to find their own path.

Anyway, I just had to pose these passages, because I absolutely loved this depiction of the woman within the story.



I also found it interesting the attention to the clothing which was given, and the use of color. I found it interesting how the secretary was given green, almost as if to make her "blend in" with the garden surroundings. While the husband and the wife are made to stand out in stark contrast to the garden with him in yellow, and her in mustard and cream.



I loved this scene. And I found it interesting how things progressed from being wolf-like, to a she-wolf, and finally, a werewolf.

I haven't over looked it. It is a fine post Muse. I had not paid attention to the color and I think the significance you point out is what Lawrence intended, not just accidental.

Virgil, I will have to answer your long post tomorrow. I don't have time today or tonight. I did however do some online research on Lawrence and feminism. I think if you run the same search you find some great articles and there is one site that lists so many of the great woman feminists who were influenced by Lawrence. I also found this incredible study and article from Assiut University which was a PDF but which I could print out. It is a long article but I noticed when printing it it does mention some of the short stories we recently discussed. I can't wait to read this study. It is quite long but worth printing out. Here is the link if you want to check it out, too:

http://docs.ksu.edu.sa/PDF/Articles51/Article510647.pdf

It begins:


This article should be quite interesting and revealing, as well. I really excited to find it. Dark Muse, this will probably interest you, also (thinking of your class), and any others who will find the time to read it.

I will have to print that out. It's 25 pages. I haven't read a scholarly article in years. Poor Janine, you're being ganged up on.

[Janine]

I haven't over looked it. It is a fine post Muse. I had not paid attention to the color and I think the significance you point out is what Lawrence intended, not just accidental.

Dark Muse, I agree - that was a really good observation and color meant a lot to Lawrence. I wondered at those colors, at the time I read them in the story, but then I forgot about them and didn't think of the deeper sympolism lurking there. That is good - green like the grass and spring. It did seem to me the wife's outfit was classy, but harsh in color; am I right?


I will have to print that out. It's 25 pages. I haven't read a scholarly article in years. [/QUOTE]

Virgil, I have been trying to read it quickly. There is a part on "The Blind Man" that is quite interesting. I did print it and it was about that many pages. I don't care - soon I need a new ink cartridge anyway. To save ink you can print with Options and use rough draft and black cartridge only - ever do that? I do it all the time to conserve.
Tonight I hope to read the whole document. Hey, it reminds me of a thesis. I don't know where this guy is from or where that university is located, do you. If you run a general search and just enter Lawrence feminism - you will come up with many sites. There is one book sounds extremely interesting and I put it into my 'watching' on Amazon. Of course - don't I have enough Lawrence books by now?

I just responded to Quarks post and then went back in (after I ate some dinner and can think clearer) and added some comments at the bottom. You might want to check that out. Hey, Virgil, you don't have to go to another thread to find a good contraversy going on...stay right here...you started it this time.....

Poor Janine, you're being ganged up on.

it is ok, I am not scared at all. I am a strong female figure - one of Lawrence's best!

[Virgil]

Virgil, I have been trying to read it quickly. There is a part on "The Blind Man" that is quite interesting. I did print it and it was about that many pages. I don't care - soon I need a new ink cartridge anyway. To save ink you can print with Options and use rough draft and black cartridge only - ever do that? I do it all the time to conserve.

Yes, I do that all the time. But it seems to be the same quality so I've wondered if it really does anything.

Tonight I hope to read the whole document. Hey, it reminds me of a thesis. I don't know where this guy is from or where that university is located, do you. If you run a general search and just enter Lawrence feminism - you will come up with many sites. There is one book sounds extremely interesting and I put it into my 'watching' on Amazon. Of course - don't I have enough Lawrence books by now?

I looked up the university and it's from Egypt. I'm curious to see what he has to say. It does look like a thesis. Yes, you got plenty on Lawrence. But whatever makes you happy.

I just responded to Quarks post and then went back in (after I ate some dinner and can think clearer) and added some comments at the bottom. You might want to check that out. Hey, Virgil, you don't have to go to another thread to find a good contraversy going on...stay right here...you started it this time.....

Yes, I've never seen you so. I'm actually a little scared.

it is ok, I am not scared at all. I am a strong female figure - one of Lawrence's best!

I wonder if you would have been one of those women that would have followed Lawrence around, one of his disciples. He probably would have grown sick of you like Dorothy Brett.

[Quark]

I want to say that this whole feminist, anti-feminist question is a very complicated business and we all need to do more research on it before we can make sound judgements about Lawrence in relationship to the movement.

You're right that Lawrence's view on feminism is a poor topic. It's probably best to stick to the story. I'll look at that article you suggested, too. The introduction sounded interesting.

I also found it interesting the attention to the clothing which was given, and the use of color. I found it interesting how the secretary was given green, almost as if to make her "blend in" with the garden surroundings. While the husband and the wife are made to stand out in stark contrast to the garden with him in yellow, and her in mustard and cream.

I loved this scene. And I found it interesting how things progressed from being wolf-like, to a she-wolf, and finally, a werewolf.

Good eye for detail, Dark Muse. I didn't notice the colors in that scene. Just before that passage, Lawrence comments about how the wife is out of tune with spring, and the contrast in color brings that out. I wonder why the secretary blends in, though. Is that a indication of her unimportance? Maybe the camouflage refers to her modest, unimposing nature. He could be saying that secretary is the one who's in tune with spring because of her youth. This is the scene where the wife discovers she's forty, and the green clothes of the secretary could be one more signal to the reader of the age discrepancy between the two women.

The wolf epithets are easier to follow. This is just after the wife hatches her malignant plan to separate the husband from his servants. Here the narrator is not-so-subtly ratcheting up the rhetoric against the wife to show how destructive she's being.

[Janine]

Yes, I do that all the time. But it seems to be the same quality so I've wondered if it really does anything.

Mine is way different quality when I do that. You must be doing something wrong or not applying it at the bottom. First you have to hit 'apply' and then 'ok' or 'print' or whatever it says. I will check it out and write up the instructions for you. I sure saves on ink.

I looked up the university and it's from Egypt. I'm curious to see what he has to say. It does look like a thesis. Yes, you got plenty on Lawrence. But whatever makes you happy.

Wow, thanks for finding that out. Egypt - that is really quite interesting. It must be in a book or published, because it is in a PDF file. Usually, you can't print those out, so I was shocked I could this time. I am glad of it. I love reading any commentary, or anything fairly new in ideas on Lawrence and his work. It all makes me happy! It doesn't take much to make me happy.

Of course, I don't know about my adoration of Lawrence, if up close and personal; the guy did look a bit ragged later in life and I don't like men quite that thin and he got so his hair looked quite messy and I heard he had a scraggly red beard....hummm, I think I have better taste in men than that!

Yes, I've never seen you so. I'm actually a little scared.

Must be the sudden change in temperature, the heat. I did get a bit worked up; did you see me actually turn 'red' with anger above - see my rebutal to Quark's post and that dumb woman's remarks. I think he is mad at me now. I am sorry, Quark.... Yikes, I might have the capacity to be M,B and Dangerous like you, V!

I wonder if you would have been one of those women that would have followed Lawrence around, one of his disciples. He probably would have grown sick of you like Dorothy Brett.

Yeah, but I'm a lot cutier!

[Janine]

You're right that Lawrence's view on feminism is a poor topic. It's probably best to stick to the story. I'll look at that article you suggested, too. The introduction sounded interesting.

What, Quark, too hot in the kitchen for you? It is not a poor topic, just one that I agree, we need to discuss, other than here, since we are disrupting the story discussion. But I just wanted to leave it, that it is questionable and complicated and so we should not make judgements as to label L anything specific concerning feminism/anti-feminism. If you have the time read the article. It may throw some new light on the whole topic. Thanks, Q!

Good eye for detail, Dark Muse. I didn't notice the colors in that scene. Just before that passage, Lawrence comments about how the wife is out of tune with spring, and the contrast in color brings that out. I wonder why the secretary blends in, though. Is that a indication of her unimportance? Maybe the camouflage refers to her modest, unimposing nature. He could be saying that secretary is the one who's in tune with spring because of her youth. This is the scene where the wife discovers she's forty, and the green clothes of the secretary could be one more signal to the reader of the age discrepancy between the two women.

Yes, I agree; good eye for detail, DM and I was also wondering something about the two blue dresses - the wife's being expensive and the secretary changing into her blue dress which was not the quality of the wife's dress and she seems to see it as an inferiority image. I wondered just why the secretary would go and change into a similar dress and the same exact color. That seemed so strange to me. Usually women are mortified if they go somewhere and another woman is wearing a similar dress or the identical color. In this instance the secretary must know well enough her dress will be inferior to the wife's and this would draw more attention to her lowlier state. It did not quite figure with me, so I wanted to see what other opinions there are concerning these two blue dresses.

The wolf epithets are easier to follow. This is just after the wife hatches her malignant plan to separate the husband from his servants. Here the narrator is not-so-subtly ratcheting up the rhetoric against the wife to show how destructive she's being.

Quark, can you quote some of those passages to look at specifically?

[Quark]

I think he is mad at me now. I am sorry, Quark....

Ha, no I'm not mad (noover here). I just thought we were getting needlessly sidetracked on a question that we weren't going to solve quickly.

I wondered just why the secretary would go and change into a similar dress and the same exact color. That seemed so strange to me. Usually women are mortified if they go somewhere and another woman is wearing a similar dress or the identical color. In this instance the secretary must know well enough her dress will be inferior to the wife's and this would draw more attention to her lowlier state. It did not quite figure with me, so I wanted to see what other opinions there are concerning these two blue dresses.

Lawrence is trying to draw the connection between the blue birds and the women here. The scene with the dresses is right after the scene with the birds. Plus, the dresses are the same color as the birds. They're even the same shade of blue. Fighting blue birds in one scene are mirrored by fighting women in another.

Quark, can you quote some of those passages to look at specifically?

I can post more on that tomorrow. Before I do that, though, I should probably write something for the Chekhov thread. We're coming to an important part in "About Love", and it seems like the conversation is starting to flag for some reason.

[Janine]

Ha, no I'm not mad (noover here). I just thought we were getting needlessly sidetracked on a question that we weren't going to solve quickly.

Lawrence is trying to draw the connection between the blue birds and the women here. The scene with the dresses is right after the scene with the birds. Plus, the dresses are the same color as the birds. They're even the same shade of blue. Fighting blue birds in one scene are mirrored by fighting women in another.

I knew that! I just mean 'logically', why would the secretary pick the same color dress, knowing hers will appear to be inferior to the wife's expensive one? Is it the only nice dress she owns? I wondered about whether Lawrence just ignored realism here and contrived to have them mimic the two bluebirds; it seems unlike Lawrence to ignore the obvious, in whether realistically, the secretary would put herself in the position of being inferior, or maybe that was the point - she wished to look less impressive, than the wife, more down to earth and ordinary. It still seems strange to me.

I can post more on that tomorrow. Before I do that, though, I should probably write something for the Chekhov thread. We're coming to an important part in "About Love", and it seems like the conversation is starting to flag for some reason.

Well you better, where have you been in the Chekhov thread, anyway....off with the new "Thus Spoke Z" thread? eh, Quark? .... and in Chekhov, we are not falling behind?!? It only just turned April 11th, from where I am sitting and geez, that leaves nearly 20 more days in this month. Nor is the conversation starting to flag, whatever that means. If you had gone in there today, you might have noticed that I posted a fairly long post.....I will give you a flag! I wish to post more tomorrow, and even some questions that popped up, while I was reading the story for the FOURTH time last night....YES, the 4th!...I am not kidding.

[Dark Muse]

Dark Muse, I agree - that was a really good observation and color meant a lot to Lawrence. I wondered at those colors, at the time I read them in the story, but then I forgot about them and didn't think of the deeper sympolism lurking there. That is good - green like the grass and spring. It did seem to me the wife's outfit was classy, but harsh in color; am I right?

Yes I would agree. The color of mustard does seem to really leap out at you, and well it also does not bring to my mind a very pleasant color either.

The other thing I noticed as that it seemed the wife was wearing, bolder versions of the colors her husband were in.

As he was in yellow and white, and she was in mustard and cream.

I see there being some relation between yellow and mustard, but yellow is a more mellow color while mustard really stand out a lot more.

As well cream to me, is just a sort of off-white color.

You're right that Lawrence's view on feminism is a poor topic. It's probably best to stick to the story. I'll look at that article you suggested, too. The introduction sounded interesting.



Good eye for detail, Dark Muse. I didn't notice the colors in that scene. Just before that passage, Lawrence comments about how the wife is out of tune with spring, and the contrast in color brings that out. I wonder why the secretary blends in, though. Is that a indication of her unimportance? Maybe the camouflage refers to her modest, unimposing nature. He could be saying that secretary is the one who's in tune with spring because of her youth. This is the scene where the wife discovers she's forty, and the green clothes of the secretary could be one more signal to the reader of the age discrepancy between the two women.

I think the reason the secretary is made to appear to sort of blend in more, is because, as has been talked before, she is not really the focus of the problem. And she is more humble and does just sort of fit into the background. While the husband and the wife are more overbearing personalities, and the secretary is just sort of caught between the two of them.

The wolf epithets are easier to follow. This is just after the wife hatches her malignant plan to separate the husband from his servants. Here the narrator is not-so-subtly ratcheting up the rhetoric against the wife to show how destructive she's being.

Yes, it does seem to be sort of showing the transformation, for lack of a better word, that the wife progresses through, within the story. I did find the werewolf analogy to be quite interesting though.

Yes, I agree; good eye for detail, DM and I was also wondering something about the two blue dresses - the wife's being expensive and the secretary changing into her blue dress which was not the quality of the wife's dress and she seems to see it as an inferiority image. I wondered just why the secretary would go and change into a similar dress and the same exact color. That seemed so strange to me. Usually women are mortified if they go somewhere and another woman is wearing a similar dress or the identical color. In this instance the secretary must know well enough her dress will be inferior to the wife's and this would draw more attention to her lowlier state. It did not quite figure with me, so I wanted to see what other opinions there are concerning these two blue dresses.

That was an odd moment, it could almost be seen as an act of defiance on part of the secretary, as sort of passive aggression against the wife. Perhaps she had meant to irritate the woman, or play upon her "jealousy" on purpose.

[Virgil]

I'm not sure what to make of all the colors and clothing coordination. I had only picked up on the blue dresses mirroring the two blue birds. It struck me as a little contrived. But no doubt Lawrence is trying to suggest something with all this, but I'm not sure I've figured it out altogether.

[Janine]

I'm not sure what to make of all the colors and clothing coordination. I had only picked up on the blue dresses mirroring the two blue birds. It struck me as a little contrived. But no doubt Lawrence is trying to suggest something with all this, but I'm not sure I've figured it out altogether.

Me either, Virgil
Remember the colored stockings in "Women in Love" ?
Hey, maybe our Lawrence was a 'cross-dresser'; he sure was interested in woman's clothes!