Satan as a mythic hero...

[Kevin Garcia]

Working on a paper here, with thoughts of working something similar into a thesis later, and I wanted to see what you guys thought...

The basic premis is this, Satan of Paradise Lost fits into the "hero" mold in that his story follows the basic concepts of an epic hero and of the "hero journeys" of Campbell and others.

He travels a long way and experiences a great loss before the start of the epic.

He is called to action and told to refuse.

He must cross an important threshold (gates of hell) before entering the belly of the whale (Milton's cosmos).

He confronts the father rather than seeking attonment and tempts the goddess (Eve) rather than be tempted.

And so on...

I just wanted to see if anyone else has made similar connections. I haven't found any related articles on journal databases (but that's never stopped me).

[Scuzzy]

I suppose it is the same to say that one man's terrorist is another man's patriot. Forgot where I heard that quote, but Satan must have been someones hero. I guess, what I mean by that statement, is that hero is not synonymous with good. I would say Satan is written in as the hero.

You could also compare Satan to Odysseus, I suppose. This poem has the same story structure as the Odyssey, starting mid-story. Both hero's suffered their losses and went on a great journey - and, for the most part, alone.

Hero or not, he is definitely the protagonist of the story.

[AuntShecky]

Some critic --I'm guessing T.S. Eliot, it's been decades since I've been in school --commented on "Milton's Byronic curly-headed Satan," (Byron of course the 19th c.
Romantic poet. Whether Lord Byron, or Satan, had curly hair is beyond me.)
The point of course, is that in any narrative, be it a novel or movie, or epic poem, you have to have conflict. The hero and villain (an anti-hero is a little of both) have to have some characteristic with which the audience can identify.
If you don't have conflict, you don't have drama. This is
why Paradise Lost is more of an artistic success than Paradise Regained. (We can love or worship the Christ character but we can never identify with Him!) The same is true of Dante -- the Inferno is a helluva (pun intended)
better read than the Paradiso.
In Paradise Lost, we identify with Adam and Eve (we'd better!) Also Milton meant for us to see a little of ourselves in Satan. We're supposed to disdain him, but a dark corner deep inside of us secretly roots for him! That's what makes this poem in my opinion one of the greatest works of western civilization.
Auntie

[Starving Buddha]

Working on a paper here, with thoughts of working something similar into a thesis later, and I wanted to see what you guys thought...

The basic premis is this, Satan of Paradise Lost fits into the "hero" mold in that his story follows the basic concepts of an epic hero and of the "hero journeys" of Campbell and others.

He travels a long way and experiences a great loss before the start of the epic.

He is called to action and told to refuse.

He must cross an important threshold (gates of hell) before entering the belly of the whale (Milton's cosmos).

He confronts the father rather than seeking attonment and tempts the goddess (Eve) rather than be tempted.

And so on...

I just wanted to see if anyone else has made similar connections. I haven't found any related articles on journal databases (but that's never stopped me).

If you view Satan in his most basic role, he is rebellion in its purest sense. This being so, then anyone who strives for innovation, revolution or change is satanic. Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Zoroaster etc. et al... All examples of this Promethean rebel... life itself (evolution) is the most profound example of rebellion.

[blazeofglory]

If you view Satan in his most basic role, he is rebellion in its purest sense. This being so, then anyone who strives for innovation, revolution or change is satanic. Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Zoroaster etc. et al... All examples of this Promethean rebel... life itself (evolution) is the most profound example of rebellion.

I agree with you Buddha, in Buddha nature there is no Evil, and evil and good are simply phenomena we live with, and at the bottom of it there are no evil and good things. Equanimity of course.

[Starving Buddha]

I agree with you Buddha, in Buddha nature there is no Evil, and evil and good are simply phenomena we live with, and at the bottom of it there are no evil and good things. Equanimity of course.

Yep. Keirkegaard had a concept called either/or. In a nutshell, in life we experience dilemmas, they are resolved by choosing an either/or. He reasoned that at the highest level of wisdom, the either/or dilemma disappears. I suppose in this way, the good and evil merge as one and are seen as parts of the same thing. Life is both fascinating and terrible.

[aeroport]

The basic premis is this, Satan of Paradise Lost fits into the "hero" mold in that his story follows the basic concepts of an epic hero and of the "hero journeys" of Campbell and others.

See Neil Forsyth, The Satanic Epic, Princeton University Press, 2003.
He deals with this idea at great length, and it is a fascinating book.

[Kafka's Crow]

I think it was William Empson who opened this Pandora's Box in Milton's God. Milton needed a hero for his epic poem and feeble Adam (always on his knees, worshiping and obeying) couldn't be that hero, God was so great that he couldn't be imagined at all. The poem is not about Him it is about His ways ('...and justify the ways of God to man'). In doing so Milton created the greatest rebel hero. He had no choice. He was working on an epic in classical tradition and knew that it was his task to bring the tradition to his own age and take it beyond. What else could he do? He couldn't create a feeble, fireworks-shooting, cheating and lying, dancing and gyrating figure of the morality plays which was passed on to him via Marlowe's Mephistopheles.

Then there is the small matter of Satan's prelapserian glory. He is a shadow of his glorious past. He exists and hence can not be totally evil to the point of ridiculousness. He shows a great love for his followers and rises above them like a true great leader. His existence is a proof of the essential goodness that he carries within. According to St Augustine "malum nihil esse", ("evil is nothing") because all existence is from God and thus carries God, pure evil can not exist. Evil is not an absence of good, it is a privation of good, a perversion of good which can not die because there is no existence without good/God. This Augustinian take on the argument not only confirms the external existence of evil/Satan but also the goodness in it/him which can be seen in Milton's poem.

[aeroport]

He shows a great love for his followers and rises above them like a true great leader.

Does he, though? He seems quite manipulative of his followers, to me. The thing that really interests me about this poem, in fact, is that this image of Satan as a sort of mock-democrat who stages events to bring himself to power strongly mirrors the image Milton presents of a God who carries out some odd and subtle deceits (indeed lies outright, in at least one case) to bring himself greater glory. I also think it is interesting that the language Milton employs suggests a connection between himself and Satan as well as himself and God (the hero of "solitary flight" as well as the divinely-inspired poet of "inward sight").

His existence is a proof of the essential goodness that he carries within. According to St Augustine "malum nihil esse", ("evil is nothing") because all existence is from God and thus carries God, pure evil can not exist. Evil is not an absence of good, it is a privation of good, a perversion of good which can not die because there is no existence without good/God. This Augustinian take on the argument not only confirms the external existence of evil/Satan but also the goodness in it/him which can be seen in Milton's poem.

This actually seems to relate to Forsyth's argument. He makes great use of the Hebrew origins of Satan's name ("the Adversary") to position him, instead of the embodiment of evil, rather as the opposing character of the Christian narrative, and one without whom the salvation of Man would not be possible: “Satan’s temptation of mankind is a necessary prerequisite to the Son’s reciprocal intervention in the fate of mankind. Without Satan, no Son.”
Interesting stuff.
Nice to see another Milton fan.