I have almost finished the book and although Tolstoy strikes me as a mysogynist (there seems to be quite a consensus about that in the threads - i have read almost all the Anna Karenina threads in the site) that didin't diminish my pleasure of reading the novel
I agree with everything Baz says here
I liked that Anna character very much (most interesting character of the book, although i quite enjoyed Levin's "ranting").
Through the darkness of future past
the magician longs to see
one chance out between two worlds
'Fire walk with me.'
Twin Peaks
Thanks!
I've read somewhere that Levin is actually Tolstoy so he had to be great.
At thunder and tempest, At the world's coldheartedness,
During times of heavy loss And when you're sad
The greatest art on earth Is to seem uncomplicatedly gay.
To get things clear, they have to firstly be very unclear. But if you get them too quickly, you probably got them wrong.
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[QUOTE=Gladys;536912] [B]But is johann cruyff right to condemn her for leaving cold Karenin? Should she, a young woman, have simply made the best of a loveless relationship…for Seryozha sake? Did she marry too young to understand ? And did she indeed place her ‘own, totally individual happiness before everything’?
I don't think that Anna was selfish to leave cold Karenin to pursue love and romantic / passionate fulfillment. She was a young, beautiful and passionate woman who was widely admired for her beauty and femininity. It was quite natural that she would eventually succumb to the adoration that was bestowed upon her, since only a cold stone with no heart or imagination would not be affected by this --- particularly when she was involved in a boring, cold and passionless marriage with a person like Karenin.
There was definitely no love in the marriage. Anna married him at 17, under pressure from her aunt with whom she was living ( parents were deceased ) and who obviously wanted to get rid of her. Karenin visited Anna at the instigation of the aunt, but he was not in love with her and he wasn't thrilled by the prospect of the marriage. He agreed to marry her against his better judgement ( i.e. his own rule that in doubt one should refrain from action ) and at the insinuation of the aunt that if he didn't, Anna, a young marriageable girl, would be " compromised ". So, he married her and gave her " all the feeling he was capable of " ( Tolstoy's words, although not sure of the exact quote ) --- which, we can surmise, was not a lot, since Tolstoy frequently described him as not capable of close, heartfelt relationships with people.
Anna at first was attached to the much older Karenin ( 24-year difference ), since he was a father figure / substitute father. There was probably affection ( of the friendship variety ) and certainly there was good communication ( as in Anna always confiding into Karenin about everything ), but that shouldn't be enough for a young, healthy woman. And material wealth is not a substitute for happiness, since it's more important for a soul to lead a rich life. And Anna's soul was stifled.
She was just an unfortunate woman, living at the wrong time in a society with double standards. She could have fulfilled herself much more, if she lived in modern times.
Last edited by olichka; 03-12-2008 at 03:27 PM.
Tolstoy seduces us. Before she leaves Karenin, the reader is well-disposed towards Anna, despite her marital unfaithfulness and her plainly pejorative view of her husband, who has treated her as a friend and amply provided for her. Given Tolstoy’s insight into motives, we might be sympathetic to any evildoer…to any human. Perhaps, we should be so seduced more often.Originally Posted by olichka
Nevertheless, 'Anna's soul was stifled' by her adventure with Vronsky! Had she stayed faithful to Karenin, Anna would have remained that endearing, confident and resilient woman, who had rescued the marriage of brother Stiva and Dolly.
Last edited by Gladys; 03-13-2008 at 01:10 AM.
Well, everyone here certainly has very interesting insights into Anna's character. I begin to see different sides of the issue now. As well, it's time to re-read the book !
While Vronky is increasingly likable and Anna narcissistic, I thought Karenin - though briefly heroic - a rather pathetic figure towards the end.
That Karenin ‘was living a very superficial life’ is well illustrated by his curious relationship with Lidia Ivanovna towards the end of the novel. I suppose he was searching for happiness though there is something tragic about him.
In the beginning, I also was 'impressed with Anna's individualism' but thought she had so much more: an exceptional measure of maturity, balance and integrity. Her angelic love seemed to ‘embrace duty, responsibility and commitment’ with consummate ease.
Consequently, I found her fall into ‘selfishness and self-centeredness’ nigh incomprehensible. Opium addiction hardly explains it. I remained so puzzled that dislike for Anna was indefinitely forestalled.
"He (Karenin) has taken her daughter. Alexey was ready to agree to anything at first. Now it worries him terribly that he should have given his own child away to another man. But he can't take back his word. Karenin came to the funeral. But we tried to prevent his meeting Alexey. For him, for her husband, it was easier, anyway. She had set him free. But my poor son was utterly given up to her. He had thrown up everything, his career, me, and even then she had no mercy on him, but of set purpose she made his ruin complete. No, say what you will, her very death was the death of a vile woman, of no religious feeling. God forgive me, but I can't help hating the memory of her, when I look at my son's misery!"
Guilty how? She certainly wasn't any worse than her brother, or numerous other characters, but she was regarded differently after her infidelity.
But that's not the position she found herself in.I seriously can't find a good quality in this character - she was the only guilty party - and even her suicide is just icing on the cake - yes,I've destroyed several lives already,mostly because I don't appreciate that which most others don't have,but hey,why should I face any consequences?I'll just kill myself - what an easy way to escape.As for the rest of them - screw them!(I think this word best describes what I'm looking to say
As for Anna not facing any consequences... you're kidding right?
He didn't like Serezha. Karenin said multiple times that Serezha was connected with his revulsion towards Anna, and that besides that, he was disappointing.
I don't dislike Anna. She is unfortunate in her personality, which is obsessive. There is an element of selfishness- she dreams that both Karenin and Vronsky are her husbands and that all three are happy.
Great novel. Tolstoy was a master at crafting characters right down to the bone..He was so good, at one point in the novel, I was like,"Yo, Why is Anna such a *****?!"
In regards to the thread, I liked the character because I genuinely hated her selfish-ego trippin' personality, and that's what made the book so good. ONce you thought Anna wasn't gonna sink any lower by taking off with Vronsky and ABANDONING her child, lo n behold she jumps in front of a train.
I have shifting feelings towards Anna, while I'm in the book I have sympathy for her. Afterwards, outside Tolstoy's world, when I analyse her actions and atitude I don't care for her much. That is why Tolstoy is a genius, no one puts you inside a character like he does.
I agree. Each character has an argument.
Hi,
I would like to share my view and see if anyone agrees. I am in the group, which seems to be the minority, that views Anna's character positively. I believe the tragedy that ensues is an indictment of the society in which she lives. I view Anna's insanity, which culminates in her suicide as a product of the stress placed upon her by society. She is torn between her love for Vronsky and for her son and is given no air to breath by society or her husband. Arguably she should have stuck with the husband she had committed to, but she made a mistake in marrying too young to someone she did not really love. To me, her and Vronsky had great potential as people. In today's society Anna and Alexei could have been divorced and gone on to lead separate fulfilling lives, and with both maintaining a relationship with their son. In the time and place of the novel however, society was never going to permit this, and the consequence is the tragic death of Anna and probably Vronsky, leaving their daughter parentless, Alexei half mad and Seryoza in a terrible position.
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