im gonna have to agree with ya Zepp.
im gonna have to agree with ya Zepp.
Thank you, kindly.Originally Posted by Van Dalen
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
The Bible is full with God's unfairness.Do you remember Egypt,where God killed every family's older son in order that the Faraon would let the Hebrew people go?It's even that famous song of Louis Armstrong "Go down Moses"...
The Bible is,in the end,a horrible account of punishments and unending sufferings of sinners,or so-called-sinners.After all,in today's world,and anytime,as long as the human mind can remember,evilness has been either punished by humans themselves or has gone unnoticed(so they say).What would make me believe that there is a God,good or bad,it doesn't matter for the moment,while I decide myself the course of my life?
You forget that the kingdom of heaven suffers violence: and the kingdom of heaven is like a woman.
James Joyce
It is a fatal miscarriage, so ill to order affairs, as to pass for a fool in one company, when in another you might be treated as a philosopher. Jonathan Swift
If God makes the rules (and who else would?)
How can he be unfair?
Told by a fool, signifying nothing.
That's a good point, fool on the hill, it's what I believe.
But I don't believe God interfered so much with human affairs as is described in the OT.
To me a being of infinite love would not do those things. They happened or are told about by people who claimed to be prophets. Of course there IS a god, and we can live our lives according to his will, in freedom, but these people were self-deluded into thinking god told them to do acts of hate. When a person believes this, it is their own voice in their minds that they worship and obey, and it is something dark. But that's not god.
Why would I believe a written testimony that God hardened the heart of Herod?
What human would know this? They wouldn't. It's a lie. Same as if I told you God hardened Bush's heart so that he could follow his will in cluster-bombing thousands of Iraqi homes.
Furthermore, with any reflection at all, the statement "God hardened the heart of Herod" doesn't mean anything at all-- words do not mean the same thing after 2000 years
Last edited by NikolaiI; 02-01-2008 at 03:29 PM.
``The Bible is,in the end,a horrible account of punishments and unending sufferings of sinners,or so-called-sinners.``
note that an equal amount of innocents suffer as well because of this god's wicked attitude
I agree with you hells.
The only thing is, god is not exactly responsibile for the actions of people...
I mean, if someone wrote a book of lies about you, it's not your fault. And at the risk of offense, it's lies when we say someone does something for reasons we know-- that is, to say we know the reasons in their mind. And if we say god smote the sinners because he didn't like them-- this is....well, yeah.
``god is not exactly responsibile for the actions of people...``
We discussed my views on this on the other thread. As you know, I don't accept that notion though, again, you are free to believe it if you wish.
No, I am not talking about god being responsible for the actions of his creation, and all of that. Nor am I justifying god for the merciless acts accorded him in the bible. I am saying those are lies. If someone wrote a book relating horrible deeds about me, I wouldn't know what to think. Then if a lot of people justified me and argued and rationalized these acts, it would be even more bizarre!
The god I believe in didn't do any of the things in the bible. Basically, an infinite god is impossible to view, nor does he notice what goes on here on earth.
This is really a good question and of course that sets us in a series of doubts in the justice of God or the fact that he is really just to expel Adam and Eve on the ground that they were disobedient to God to eat the fruit.
If God is really compassionate and why He does not forgive his children? How can the precepts of Jesus synchronize with the act / vindication of God when He punishes.
God too must preach by setting example and since he regards us his children then he as the Father figure must obey the rules he sets to us.
Of course this post really speaks of what I always want to say.
“Those who seek to satisfy the mind of man by hampering it with ceremonies and music and affecting charity and devotion have lost their original nature””
“If water derives lucidity from stillness, how much more the faculties of the mind! The mind of the sage, being in repose, becomes the mirror of the universe, the speculum of all creation.
I don't know about Christianity. But from my understanding of İslam, the God is not unfair at all. Men are unfair. And they blame God instead of themselves. Just like i saw some people of New Orleans on TV after Hurricane Catrina, they were all like "where was God?"...
"Are You Human?
Important: To make sure you're a person, and not some spamming robot, please delete the "d" found in the attached box and enter the first letter in the word "Literature." Case doesn't matter, just enter that first letter."
-Thus, i have proven my existence as a man and individual in this world.
I believe that God stopped Hitler in the form of the Allies. I don't know what the plan is with Bush or why things are happening the way that they are but who am I? Certainly not God.
It's humans that have gone bad and caused all sorts of problems, not God. God has given us free will but He does show Himself when we call on Him and ask for help.
I understand where you're coming from (I think) in wondering why God allows bad things to happen. Even as a believer I've struggled with figuring that out. One thing that I've come to realize is that God is always around - it's me that doesn't always see Him. He knows what He's doing even when I don't. His plans are not based on whether or not I understand them.
Last edited by Rogers_68; 02-02-2008 at 12:47 PM.
A human that God was working through to write the testimony.
No offense intended, but how do you know? That opinion is not backed up by anything.
In the context of your argument, you are saying that the writer of that testimony made a claim that is not true. However, since your argument has no backing than you are essentially doing the same thing that you are accusing the writer of that testimony of doing.
And if God revealed this to you and was speaking through you then it would be true whether I agreed with it or not. I'm sure that many people during the time of Herod did not or would not have believed that God was hardening Herod's heart to fulfill a bigger plan. So what. The person that God revealed it to knew it.
God does not base His plans off of whether or not we all believe it. He's God - He does what He does and what can we, just a small and most times obnoxiously arrogant part of His creation, say about it?
If you don't agree with what the Bible says, I truly respect that. But to make a claim that something in it is a lie, especially only on the grounds of your mere opinion, is not a worthwhile argument in any way. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, I'm saying you can't call your opinion the truth when it is, after all, an opinion.
Last edited by Rogers_68; 02-02-2008 at 12:49 PM.
Distinguished Professor Percy Bridgman answered the idea that some god was not and could not be responsible for the world's ills when he said, ''Scientists aren't responsible for the facts that are in nature ... If anyone should have a sense of it is God. He put the facts there.''
This is the way rationalists think. And if you read the Bible you cannot come out with any other type of interpretation.
But if you wish to defy logic and common sense by still insisting that humans are accountable for the evils created by some god, then so be it.
``from my understanding of İslam, the God is not unfair at all.``
According to the Koran, Sura 91, Verse 8, Allah creates ALL evil. It also parallels the Bible's teaching in that it says nothing can befall you unless it is willed by this same god in Sura 9, verse 51.
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