Owning Pets Is Cruel Debate

[pussnboots]

No one compells you to read it either if you don't like it.

no need to get testy!!!! I was just making a comment just like everyone else.
I find it quite funny how long some of these discussions can go on. Chill!

[Lote-Tree]

What do you do with the things that might not be verifiable with the tools of your science? You just throw them away and say they do not exist?

Treat it with a degree of Skecpticism until it becomes verifiable.

[Sweets America]

Treat it with a degree of Skecpticism until it becomes verifiable.

I think this is a good attitude actually. It is just that I also question the way science verifies things. I treat everything with skepticism I guess.

[TheFifthElement]

Animals have no such authorities of themselves do they?

What you are doing it passing it some other humans arn't you?

And what do they do with them?

Lote, if you want to know what happens to an injured wild bird you can read about it on the internet...oh, sorry I'll help you along, information here : http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpin...juredbirds.asp
In accordance with the law in UK, if an injured wild bird is discovered it may be taken in by humans only if it is to be treated then released into the wild. This is the reason why you hand the bird over to people who have the skill to both minimise the impact of human contact on the creature, and successfully reintegrate it into its natural environment.

More here :http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/helpin...health/law.asp

Lote, you have argued that it is in the best interest of both animals and humans that humans keep them as pets. Consider then the current concerns with regard to avian flu which is a threat both to the bird population and the human population. The source of bird flu in UK results from the importation of birds (and unless you know of other reasons it would seem likely that they were imported to become pets), so the benefits/detriments of pet ownership both to the human and animal population is less than black and white. Information about the bird flu timeline here :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4882824.stm

It is also suggested that the ability of diseases to cross the animal/human barrier results from living in close quarters with animals. Perhaps you'd like to read this article which provides some information concerning this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/conditions/birdflu1.shtml

Again, the fact that disease can spread from animal to human and vice versa does not affect my moral choice. However, you have argued that the human/animal interaction as it stands is mutually beneficial. I offer the above points as evidence that it is not so clear cut.

I thought you would be eager to educate yourself.

I am thank you, but I also entertain the possibility that you could be giving me duff information It would be compassionate, wouldn't it, to point me in the right direction of your research.

In all my readings I have yet to find Animal displaying Morality.

Perhaps this is because one person cannot read all things, so I will help you

Here is information from an animal welfare group who claim to have scientific proof of the existence of animal morality. Information about this here :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3014747.stm
and here : http://www.ciwf.org.uk/education/animal.html
From the articles it is not possible to tell if this research has been subjected to full scientific scrutiny and acceptance by the scientific community. One might argue that as an animal welfare organisation their position may be somewhat biased, but then this is often the case in scientific research which is why independent testing and verification is required.

Of course it depends how we define moral behavior, but I have never noticed moral behavior from my dogs.

Virgil, I agree it depends on how we define morality. In terms of your dog, it is difficult to judge how it would behave in the wild because it has always been a domestic dog. However, behaviour which has been observed in African Wild Dogs includes social co-operation, communication, feeding young before adults, sharing meals, sharing the care of the young, caring for young without mothers. I cannot say if this is morality or not. It does make me think that dogs could take perfectly good care of themselves in the wild. Information here if you're interested (it took ages to load!):
http://search.bbc.co.uk/click/p/1/ds...F157%252Eshtml

[Lote-Tree]

Lote, you have argued that it is in the best interest of both animals and humans that humans keep them as pets.

I would say humanity still needs to retain the connection with the animal world for the survival of both because our relationship is an inter-connected one. It has developed over millions of years.

However, you have argued that the human/animal interaction as it stands is mutually beneficial. I offer the above points as evidence that it is not so clear cut.

Do you know how immunity works? Reserach that and you will find that it is quite beneficial to have more interactions with animals.

Perhaps this is because one person cannot read all things, so I will help you

Here is information from an animal welfare group who claim to have scientific proof of the existence of animal morality. Information about this here :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3014747.stm
and here : http://www.ciwf.org.uk/education/animal.html
From the articles it is not possible to tell if this research has been subjected to full scientific scrutiny and acceptance by the scientific community. One might argue that as an animal welfare organisation their position may be somewhat biased, but then this is often the case in scientific research which is why independent testing and verification is required.

So you can actually find information for youself...

I think this is a good attitude actually. It is just that I also question the way science verifies things.

The very fact that we are communicating over cyberspace proves that Scientific Method is quite sound! if it was not then everytime you clicked your mouse the universe would be turned itself into fairy

I treat everything with skepticism I guess.

[/quote]

Good.

[Sweets America]

The very fact that we are communicating over cyberspace proves that Scientific Method is quite sound! if it was not then everytime you clicked your mouse the universe would be turned itself into fairy

I am not sure this is relevant. But I appreciate the effort.

Good.

GREAT.

[TheFifthElement]

So you can actually find information for youself...

Yes I can, can you? Why don't you share it?

Cheeky

[Lote-Tree]

Cheeky

A little ;-)

Because I don't have the time to find the correct references for you. But with Google at your disposal you can do it for yourself

[TheFifthElement]

A little ;-)

Because I don't have the time to find the correct references for you. But with Google at your disposal you can do it for yourself

and I have time to find your references for you?!!! Typical man, why do a job for yourself when you can get a woman to do it for you

[Lote-Tree]

and I have time to find your references for you?!!! Typical man, why do a job for yourself when you can get a woman to do it for you

You women are, after all, Multi-tasking You can do ten jobs all at the same time and still have the time to post on a forum

[Sweets America]

Lote, Mr Einstein asked me to tell you this:

"Insofar as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and insofar as they are certain they do not refer to reality." Einstein

[Bakiryu]

It's not absolutely similar since babies, when they grow up, can live their own lives.

All I have been trying to do through this thread is to open myself and recognize some of my faults.

Yes, I can see that.

However, children are obligated to take care of their parents until death and provide them with all they need. In the same way we care for dogs 'til they go and give them food, love and shelter.

[1n50mn14]

I would just like to refer to a piece from The Life of Pi (Yann Martel, for those of you who aren't trendy... I'm so sad that became trendy.) I can not access the direct quote, however, it is something along the lines of the fact that we have turned >our< habitats into those of our pets, as well, and how would we, as humans feel, if turned out of said habitat? If somebody came to our home and said "Go, go, be free!" and ushered us out, away from our reliable food source, family and friends?

I believe that owning pets is, however, a debatable topic. Some animals have been domesticated for so long that they must be pets. Some animals seem to be made for humans. I think we all need to treat our pets with the love and respect they deserve, and not remove wild animals from their natural habitat.

[Bakiryu]

I would say that human and pets have a sort of partnership going, we give then food, love and shelter and they give us love, warmth and protection (if they're dogs)

[Shalot]

Let me tell you about my pet. My old cat with the barfing problem that the vet has no solution for came up and barfed on my feet while I was sleeping.

I have ignored this thread because I don't think that providing animals with food and shelter is cruel when the animals could be out in the cold starving, or dodging cars or getting squished by cars or eating anti-freeze so I am not here to debate.

I am just here to tell you that the cat that I provide shelter for came up and barfed on my feet and I was not happy. Anyone else have a pet barf on you?