If god is everything, doesn't that make him evil as well as good?

[weepingforloman]

"the problem is that Christians do not read nor understand what is in the Bible. "

1 Corinthians 15 v22 et seq.
"For as in Adam all died, so in Christ shall all be made alive"

Not all at once, the following verses say, but finally there will be no death, so all will be alive.

If there is predestination, therefore, it is that all are predestined to be saved.

Whiff- the "all" does not refer to all mankind. Paul sometimes uses it to refer only to the community of believers- it is clear that his shift is from the universal "all" to the we-who-are-in-Christ "all." If it was the truly universal "all," then what are we to make of Christ's repeated statements that there WILL be those who reject Him and enter into damnation?

it appears to be rather paradoxical. Why Jesus had to die on the cross if all were augured to live after his demise, and why gradually? I think we ought not to take these words literally but metaphorically
Why Jesus be blamed to carry sins of others on his shoulders? Atleast, I wouldn't like to be that selfish

Christ is not blamed for our sins, but in His death He atoned for our sins. If we imagine our sins to be a debt, then Christ is a friend who pays it for us.

[mazHur]

I don't think there is anyone in the world who rejects Jesus; the only difference is in his attribution to God. If God is one then How could he be confounded in Trinity?? And, why should Jesus pay our 'debts''?

[Whifflingpin]

Originally Posted by Whifflingpin
""the problem is that Christians do not read nor understand what is in the Bible. "

1 Corinthians 15 v22 et seq.
"For as in Adam all died, so in Christ shall all be made alive"

Not all at once, the following verses say, but finally there will be no death, so all will be alive.

If there is predestination, therefore, it is that all are predestined to be saved."

Originally Posted by Weepingforloman "Whiff- the "all" does not refer to all mankind. Paul sometimes uses it to refer only to the community of believers- it is clear that his shift is from the universal "all" to the we-who-are-in-Christ "all." If it was the truly universal "all," then what are we to make of Christ's repeated statements that there WILL be those who reject Him and enter into damnation?"

The shift that you claim is not clear at all, in fact it can only be arrived at by a severe distortion of sense and meaning. It is also in contradiction to the following verses. Paul deliberately describes a three stage order of resurrection - first Christ, second "they that are Christ's at his coming" (possibly the same as you mean by "we-who-are-in-Christ") and finally everyone else, because death will be destroyed.

Damnation is not precluded, in this passage, but it is declared not to be permanent.

[mazHur]

By your logic, good and bad become one and the bad have the blanket to do whatever they liked ! Amazing !

[hellsapoppin]

1 Corinthians 15 v22 et seq.
"For as in Adam all died, so in Christ shall all be made alive"

If there is predestination, therefore, it is that all are predestined to be saved.

See again, ''Having predestined us in him before the foundation of the world''.

Thus, even before the world was created, god already knew that the Fall would take place in the Garden of Eden and who would eventually be saved. Therefore, he was the actual creater of evil and has predetermined who will be saved.

[Whifflingpin]

mazHur: "By your logic, good and bad become one and the bad have the blanket to do whatever they liked ! Amazing !"

By our standards, saints may be very good, and sinners may be very evil. Compared, however, with the goodness of God or the evil of Satan, the difference between a very good human and a very bad one is not great - certainly not so great as to grant eternal bliss to one and eternal pain to another.

And, of course, you have not read what I said - "Damnation is not precluded, in this passage, but it is declared not to be permanent." So, the bad may be punished, but not for ever.





__________________

[mazHur]

Damnation for committing a crime on earth could be life imprisonment or hanging till death then we have no reason to expect lesser punishment in heaven for those who have committed murder,rape or suicide attacks etc
If we opiate our thoughts with the idea that there will be no retribution for our deeds in heaven then the need for good and bad would lose its very meaning !

[Whifflingpin]

"If we opiate our thoughts with the idea that there will be no retribution for our deeds in heaven then the need for good and bad would lose its very meaning !"

You may think that - I think it means something to do good for love of God rather than for fear of punishment. The Christian message, at the back of all its stories, mythology and dogma, is that God has love enough to overcome all our failings and wickedness.

Whatever the truth, at the end of time, it will be God, the merciful, the compassionate, who decides what happpens to all of us.

[mazHur]

so, you mean to say ALL of it is guesswork ?

God is a mixture of all things --- love and retribution included. God doesn't have one side only so selfishly and undeservedly sought for by the human beings and blamed on God or Jesus !

[Whifflingpin]

"so, you mean to say ALL of it is guesswork ?"

I'm not sure how you get this from what I have written. I think it is all a question of believing what seems to make sense to us. Your sense of justice leads you to believe that humans can commit evil that is unforgivable through all eternity. My sense of proportion does not allow me to believe that. It was, perhaps, unfair of me to point out that only God knows the answer, but yes, it is worth remembering that we are, at worst, only guessing.


"God is a mixture of all things --- love and retribution included."
Well, maybe, but have you noticed that most people who say that also believe that they will receive the love and others will get the retribution? OK that's unfair too - so I think I've said as much as I can in this bit of discussion.

Ushta te

[mazHur]

here you can find contradictions in the teachings of Bible,,,,,, the editors of Bible have made it all confusing!

try this link: http://www.answers.com/topic/an-eye-for-an-eye

Excerpt from the link:
eye for an eye, an

Punishment in which the offender suffers what the victim has suffered, exact retribution, as in Joe believed in an eye for an eye; stealing his client would have to be avenged. This idiom is a quotation from the Bible, which has "Life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth" (Deuteronomy 19:21); the idea is contradicted in the New Testament (see turn the other cheek).

[Whifflingpin]

So - you have the choice, vengeance or forgiveness - but you'd have that choice with or without the Bible.

Which of the two does your religion's book favour?

[mazHur]

So - you have the choice, vengeance or forgiveness - but you'd have that choice with or without the Bible.

Which of the two does your religion's book favour?

my religion?? Okay, let me tell you : my religion says ''forgive if you can as first preference ; if you cannot then take only that much revenge which commensurates with the hurt, but no more !"" this is what the Quran says.

As I said earlier, I am not a religious man and not an expert either on Bible , the Quran or the Geeta. However, God has given commonsense to evaluate most of the things
here is a link for more info on 'forgiveness''etc
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/358

[hellsapoppin]

Bottom line is that, contrary to Christian teaching, the biblical god has duality meaning that he is both good and evil.

[crazefest456]

Bottom line is that, contrary to Christian teaching, the biblical god has duality meaning that he is both good and evil.

uh...how?