D. H. Lawrence and Women

[Dark Muse]

I do not know much about D. H. Lawrence's personal life, and views, perhaps I should look into it, but an intresting observation I have notcied in his writing is that he does seem to be very sesnetive to women. In the works I have read of his, he creates strong women characters whom often seem to be seeking to find some sort of indepdence and trying to find a way to stand upon thier own two feet without having to rely upon him. Women whom want equality, and something more from themselves. Such things that were rather unpopular views during the time in which he was writing them.

I was wondering if anyone knew if in his personal life, he was an activie paprticpant in supporting women's rights?

[Janine]

I do not know much about D. H. Lawrence's personal life, and views, perhaps I should look into it, but an intresting observation I have notcied in his writing is that he does seem to be very sesnetive to women. In the works I have read of his, he creates strong women characters whom often seem to be seeking to find some sort of indepdence and trying to find a way to stand upon thier own two feet without having to rely upon him. Women whom want equality, and something more from themselves. Such things that were rather unpopular views during the time in which he was writing them.

I was wondering if anyone knew if in his personal life, he was an activie paprticpant in supporting women's rights?

Hi Dark Muse, I can only answer you briefly for now but I do have much knowledge of Lawrence's life and his ideas.
Virgil is also very versed in Lawrence work and Amalia, and Alexei, and some others are well-read on Lawrence. Ok, first off, this is a hard question to answer, concisely. Some feminists would strongly disagree that Lawrence favored the women's view. He certainly was keenly aware of the woman's movement when he was younger. I think he had mixed views on the subject. I personally feel that he is quite intune with women's inner feelings and deepest thoughts and is very sensitive to how women think and react. If you read "Sons and Lovers", I mention this because we are now discussing the novel (you may have noticed the thread), you will find that Lawrence delves far below the surface of, not only his main character, but the women his main character, Paul, is involved with. These portrayals are very deep and multifacted and complex, as are 'real-life' relationships and individuals.
Lawrence did believe the man was dominent in his 'will', in many of this novels, but this too, can be widely debated. In showing this aspect of man, is he really portraying that women should be independent and more sure of themselves? or he is saying they should give over to the male will. It probably is an age-old question with Lawrence's works. We were just debating this issue to some degree in the thread "Lawrence Short Stories". Try to read some of those posts on the current story "Sun". I think this will be helpful to your question.

Also, if you can please come and join in with either or both of these discussions.

I hope this partly answers you question. It would be good for you to read a short biography of the author online such as on Wikipedia or other sites or on this very site. These are short and will present some of his ideas to you and his views.

[Dark Muse]

Thank you for your input I did find it quite insightful. I have read Sons and Lovers and I do think that he seems to be senstive or at least very intuned to the issues facing women, and he does a good job in what I have read of understanding the struggle and emotions of women. I have not read any of his short stories though I am intrested to do so. If I get a chance I will take a look at the one who have mentioned Sun. And I will go and read his bio here.

Thanks again.

[Janine]

Thank you for your input I did find it quite insightful. I have read Sons and Lovers and I do think that he seems to be senstive or at least very intuned to the issues facing women, and he does a good job in what I have read of understanding the struggle and emotions of women. I have not read any of his short stories though I am intrested to do so. If I get a chance I will take a look at the one who have mentioned Sun. And I will go and read his bio here.

Thanks again.

Hello again Dark Muse; by the way, that is an interesting user name. I really like it.
I am glad my response helped you and I say - you are very wecome. Anytime, I can help I will be glad to. Lawrence is one of my favorite subjects, although I can say, I probably don't agree with all his ideas and philosophy, but all of it is certainly fascinating and of great interest to me to study. Lawrence was a deeply religious man, but not in the standard/conventional way. His religious ideas took new form and root in ancient traditions and rituals. In the short story, we are now discussing, this is quite evident, and I wonder if this is a later story. I think it might be and I will look up the date today to post in that thread.

I certainly do hope you will join us in that discussion. The website of the online text is posted by Virgil, in one of the earlier posts in reference to "Sun".

I am happy to see that you did read "Sons and Lovers'. It would also be beneficial to you to read some or all of the posts in that thread - there is much insight into the book from many posters so that ideas and comprehensions of the text are varied. It has been a good discussion and it is nearing an end but I believe in keeping these discussions open-ended so that more may be added at anytime. In fact, this is my second reading of "Sons and Lovers" and I am still commenting, because actually, I have not finished the book yet, this time around. I am trying to absorb more of the interaction of the characters and the fine and symbolic meanings of the descriptive text. I think this second reading is from a much different perspective for me personally, so that it is much more meaningful, coming after other readings of Lawrence's.

We also discussed months back the L's fine novel "Women in Love" and if you do read that one - the same will apply - the posts and discussion was excellent and worth your reviewing.

In the spring of next year we all hope to engage in a reading/discussion group thread on "Lady Chatterly's Lover". I hope you will be able to join-in at that time. It should be a very good experience for all.

Additionally, the short biography on this site will help you in some respects. I have read the full-length biographies (3 now) of L's life and have been totally captivated.

DM, I am happy that you started this thread and posted your question. I hope all this additional information is helpful to you. I like recruiting new people for the Lawrence threads. I keeps it 'fresh' and interesting.

[Dark Muse]

Hello again Dark Muse; by the way, that is an interesting user name. I really like it.

Hehe thank you

I certainly do hope you will join us in that discussion. The website of the online text is posted by Virgil, in one of the earlier posts in reference to "Sun".

I will defineately have to take a look at that, and I look forward to hopefully being able to partake in that discussion.

If I am able to get ahold of the books, then I would be intrested to join in any future discussions of any of his works, as what I have read of his so far I have enjoyed.

I did find the bio on this site to be intresting and quite insightful.

[Virgil]

I'm glad Jnanine was able to help you Dark Muse. I've heard many women say the same thing about Lawrence, that he understands women from the inside, like Janine said, he is in tune with women. It's hard to find another male writer who seems to have this capability. I think that's what you are reacting to. But as to women's issues, he is actually not so sensitive. He is definitely not a feminist. Perhaps as a young man he had mixed feelings as Janine says, but mid career around the time of The Rainbow and Women in Love, he stridently becomes anti-feminist. One of the keys to understanding Lawrence is that he is in part a naturalist, that is that man is rooted in the animal world. In his perspective, woman naturalistically is subserviant to man, and that is rooted for Lawrence in the psychology of man and women, and to do otherwise is to create a disharmonic society. For Lawrence, the problems of the modern world stem from the disorienting of this natural male/female relationship.

[Dark Muse]

Wow that is fascinating. Thanks a lot for the informaiton. I really appericate it.

By the way I just printed out the story Sun, and began reading it today.

So far it is an intresting and good read, when I have finnished the story I look forward to jumping into the discussion

[Virgil]

Wow that is fascinating. Thanks a lot for the informaiton. I really appericate it.

By the way I just printed out the story Sun, and began reading it today.

So far it is an intresting and good read, when I have finnished the story I look forward to jumping into the discussion

Your welcome, and great to have you join.

[catsinplaid]

I most certainly think that lawrence was a most evolved male creature of the day and even of our time- one must only read lady chatterlys lover to see how he shows the insensitivity of the male species to a woman who is loving and open and wanting love and has to find it outside of the proud and egotistical aristocracy... Her husband represented the cold and strident -talking heads- the men who dwell only in logic - separated from the instinctual and human side of mankind- long before his accident...
she was driven to find some type of saving grace ...
he most certainly was for women.
that was his beauty as far as i'm concerned which is a masterpiece in all his books- how much of an insight he has into women for being a man!
for that- he is one of my fave authors....

[kelby_lake]

I don't know if Lawrence was particularly a feminist. To use a crude example, most people are against animal cruelty but they wouldn't consider animals to have equal rights to humans.

But I think what he does is better because like Hardy, he writes female characters that challenge the meek Dickensian heroines. The myth that women are naturally submissive and downtrodden was disproved by Lawrence and Hardy. Hardy's women are naturally spirited but their spirit is crushed by men. And Lawrence's women have a sort of sparkiness to them.