Ideal Marriage!!

[littlelit]

hi all.
while looking up some questions on pride and Prejudice, I found a really interesting one: ' Which, if any, is the ideal marriage in the novel?'

personally, i think none of the marriages is ideal, not even Elizabeth and Darcy's, (which all my friends insist on)
i don't think austen wanted to portray any of the marriages as ideal.
my reason for this, however lame it may sound, is that any marriage which meets objections from anywhere can't be considered ideal because even if the couple is very compatible, outside objections do give rise to discord sooner or later.

what do you people think?

[sciencefan]

Which objections are you referring to?
Lady C.'s?
They "kissed and made up".
All is well with the world.


In my opinion Darcy showed the ultimate height of sacrificial and unconditional love toward Elizabeth, short of dying for her.
There is nothing greater than unconditional love.

[littlelit]

I agree to the second part of your reply but, forgive me if i m being too cynical, but i still don't believe that all is well with the world.
I know Mr. Darcy loves her unconditionally and i never suggested otherwise. But i cannot say the same about Elizabeth. I somehow don't like the fact that Elizabeth realises she is in love with Mr. Darcy after seeing Pemberley.( not even after reading THE LETTER)

[sciencefan]

I agree to the second part of your reply but, forgive me if i m being too cynical, but i still don't believe that all is well with the world.
I know Mr. Darcy loves her unconditionally and i never suggested otherwise. But i cannot say the same about Elizabeth. I somehow don't like the fact that Elizabeth realises she is in love with Mr. Darcy after seeing Pemberley.( not even after reading THE LETTER)

Surely Austen had her tongue in her cheek on that one.
When Elizabeth makes that comment, she is joking.
We already know she would not marry for money and security as she turned down Mr. Collins who would have saved the entire family from disinheriting Longborne.
Elizabeth begins to love Darcy as she learns who he really is from the housekeeper, and when she sees what kind of a man he is from the furnishings he has chosen in his home, and further when she discovers how he has rescued her and her family from disgrace, and very importantly, how he has mended the breach between she and himself by bringing her "most beloved sister" and Bingley back together again.

[littlelit]

looks like i will have to change my mind on that one

[sciencefan]

looks like i will have to change my mind on that one

Ah. I'm glad! Thanks for considering my point of view worthy.

[cactus]

Ahem... seems like we have sidetracked from the discussion at hand. But I must say Sciencefan had it right about Elizabeth.

Now back to the question. Unlike Littlelit, I am not much of a cynic...well I try not to be. I believe all of the marriages in Pride and Prejudice, with the exception of, perhaps, Lydia and Wyckham, are good marriages (because Jane Austen had written about the change in this couple's affection for one another, from one of love to indifference, in the final chapter).

For me, marriage, like parenting, is not tangible. It is very relative to the persons involved. Just as there is no one way of parenting, there is no one way of loving and relating to another in a relationship. What matters is whether we love and relate to another in a compatible way, that could be appreciated and desired by the intended and which bring joy to both. Thus while, Elizabeth might find Mr Collins' stupidity unacceptable and had they married, she might have suffered immensely, Charlotte although does not necessarily "appreciate" his shortcomings, she did not mind it, thus it did not affect her marital bliss. What she looked for and accepted in a husband was very different to Elizabeth and probably Jane too.

[sciencefan]

Ahem... seems like we have sidetracked from the discussion at hand. But I must say Sciencefan had it right about Elizabeth.

Now back to the question. Unlike Littlelit, I am not much of a cynic...well I try not to be. I believe all of the marriages in Pride and Prejudice, with the exception of, perhaps, Lydia and Wyckham, are good marriages (because Jane Austen had written about the change in this couple's affection for one another, from one of love to indifference, in the final chapter).

For me, marriage, like parenting, is not tangible. It is very relative to the persons involved. Just as there is no one way of parenting, there is no one way of loving and relating to another in a relationship. What matters is whether we love and relate to another in a compatible way, that could be appreciated and desired by the intended and which bring joy to both. Thus while, Elizabeth might find Mr Collins' stupidity unacceptable and had they married, she might have suffered immensely, Charlotte although does not necessarily "appreciate" his shortcomings, she did not mind it, thus it did not affect her marital bliss. What she looked for and accepted in a husband was very different to Elizabeth and probably Jane too.

I agree with you that all the new marriges were "good enough" marriages except for Lydia and Wickham's.

But the question was whether any of them were ideal, and that's why I only chose Eliz. & Darcy's.

I am not fond of Jane and Bingley's marriage since her father says they are so much alike and too easy going. I suppose they will both be happy, but Bingley's "flighty" personality leaves me a little scared for Jane, though I am sure she will tolerate him to the ends of the earth. Hah! Perhaps Bingley is the male equivalent of the "silly" women? I think so! - though I am sure I just opened up a can of worms.

[cactus]

hmm.... you probably have opened a can of worm.. however, I will refrain from digging in such "can".... for now at least.

In relation to the issue of "ideal marriage" as long those involved are happy then I would consider it an ideal marriage and there is every indication in the novel to illustrate this with most of the marriages. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? Thus my idea of a "ideal marriage" is a relatively happy one..

It is close to midnight here, down-under. I better prepare for bed. Catch you all later.

[Kiddjcjkk]

I think it depends on the definition of ideal - to be nice and pedantic! If ideal means all has to be perfect - in both the spouses' opinions and the opinions' of those outside of the marriage, then surely no marriage will ever be perfect in the whole history of marriages! I think most people refer to Elizabeth and Darcy's marriage as being perfect because ulitmately the overcame a lot of problems society put in their way to marry - they had unconditional love. Unconditional love, to love and be loved; it's what many of us aspire to having in our lives, and so in that sense, their marriage was ideal. But I can see in other ways, it was not... have you noticed Elizabeth falls for him when she sees Pemberley! Now is that because she's seeing pound signs in her eyes or is it because she suddenly realises, he has no improper pride (I think the latter, so don't shoot me!).