Don Quixote Reading Group

[Janine]

Grace - I think they put the 'red' in sometimes - it must only show on my computer - odd. But yes, my name is showing up red - must mean I am important, huh?
Don't forget to bold up those names!
I could use some more caffeine right now but it is too close to bedtime actually.

[Drone]

I'm in. Thanks for Grace's recommendation. If I had joint in this thread earlier!
I read through your previous talkings and share your laugh
I started reading a bit earlier in February when I took a lecture for Don Quixote in the university. But it covers only Part 1. I started to read part 2
after the exam and now I'm coming out of the cave of Montesinos in chapter 21.

I found a few days ago the fight with the lion extremely exciting!!
Hope you would share laughs with me there.
I'm a little ahead of you because I started a bit earlier. In fact I'm only learning English as a second language and must be reading much slower than you do.

The helmet you talked about caught my nerves for laugh(is it proper to say so?)as well----"However, to see if it was strong enough to stand up to the risk of a sward-cut, he took out his sword and gave it two strokes, the first of which demolished in a moment what had taken him a week to make...and, nor caring to make another trial of it". He is here making examination to his hand-made crafts like a child!

[grace86]

Drone I am happy to see you have joined us! Don't worry about not speaking English as a first language. Many people here don't speak English as their first language.

I am in Part II, and I have just finished the part with the lions. I love that part so much. Don Quixote has just left staying with Don Diego and his son Don Lorenzo. There is one particular passage in there that I like. Don Quixote does a pretty good job explaining to Don Lorenzo how well educated a knight must be.

Here's the passage I love in Part II Chapter XVIII:

"So far," said Don Lorenzo to himself, "I should not take you to
be a madman; but let us go on." So he said to him, "Your worship has
apparently attended the schools; what sciences have you studied?"

"That of knight-errantry," said Don Quixote, "which is as good as
that of poetry, and even a finger or two above it."

"I do not know what science that is," said Don Lorenzo, "and until
now I have never heard of it."

"It is a science," said Don Quixote, "that comprehends in itself all
or most of the sciences in the world, for he who professes it must
be a jurist, and must know the rules of justice, distributive and
equitable, so as to give to each one what belongs to him and is due to
him. He must be a theologian, so as to be able to give a clear and
distinctive reason for the Christian faith he professes, wherever it
may be asked of him. He must be a physician, and above all a
herbalist, so as in wastes and solitudes to know the herbs that have
the property of healing wounds, for a knight-errant must not go
looking for some one to cure him at every step. He must be an
astronomer, so as to know by the stars how many hours of the night
have passed, and what clime and quarter of the world he is in. He must
know mathematics, for at every turn some occasion for them will
present itself to him; and, putting it aside that he must be adorned
with all the virtues, cardinal and theological, to come down to
minor particulars, he must, I say, be able to swim as well as Nicholas
or Nicolao the Fish could, as the story goes; he must know how to shoe
a horse, and repair his saddle and bridle; and, to return to higher
matters, he must be faithful to God and to his lady; he must be pure
in thought, decorous in words, generous in works, valiant in deeds,
patient in suffering, compassionate towards the needy, and, lastly, an
upholder of the truth though its defence should cost him his life.
Of all these qualities, great and small, is a true knight-errant
made up; judge then, Senor Don Lorenzo, whether it be a contemptible
science which the knight who studies and professes it has to learn,
and whether it may not compare with the very loftiest that are
taught in the schools."

"If that be so," replied Don Lorenzo, "this science, I protest,
surpasses all."

He seems so sane while he discusses all of this, almost makes any person want to put on their helmet and join Don Quixote in such a noble pursuit!! Well, that doesn't seem too sane for me to do now does it?!

Drone I too studied a little bit of part one for a college course. That is why I am here today reading it. Part Two seems to be very interesting so far. I cannot wait to get further. I think Virgil will enjoy the lion fights very much as well (he's on vacation now).

I had forgotten about the fact that he had tested out his helmet in the beginning...he does seem so much like a child!

And again Drone it is nice to have you join us.

[Drone]

Well, Grace, I find it such a pleasure to join this thread here. A Chinese verb goes like----it is a pleasure to enjoy a piece of music alone; yet even a greater pleasure to share it with others. I've been reading alone so far but now I take more delight in sharing the interesting passages with you all. (I wonder if the habit of proverb-quoting made its way around from Sancho who somewhat in part 2 suddenly becomes full of wisdom and quotes whenever he can...)

Don Quixote has something of a professor indeed. He delivers speeches so seriously that sometimes what he talks about is really of great importance.
When I came to the following quoted passages, I got suddenly awakened that the mother tongue is so important to me, for recently I indulge very much in European languages learning and their culture, which is good for me too. Lorenzo likewise indulges himself in the Greek and Roman literature and
Don Quixote reminds him of the Spanish culture by such a reasonable speech that nobody would find any trace of his being insane.

And with regard to what you say, senor, of your son having no great opinion of Spanish poetry, I am inclined to think that he is not quite right there, and for this reason: the great poet Homer did not write in Latin, because he was a Greek, nor did Virgil write in Greek, because he was a Latin; in short, all the ancient poets wrote in the language they imbibed with their mother's milk, and never went in quest of foreign ones to express their sublime conceptions; and that being so, the usage should in justice extend to all nations, and the German poet should not be undervalued because he writes in his own language, nor the Castilian, nor even the Biscayan, for writing in his.

Looking back to the previous readings, the scene that most impresses me is that of the adventure with the two flocks of sheep whereafter Don Quixote, badly injured, lying on the ground, asks Sancho to find how many teeth are left in his mouth.

But go not just yet, for I want thy help and assistance; come hither, and see how many of my teeth and grinders are missing, for I feel as if there was not one left in my mouth."

Sancho came so close that he almost put his eyes into his mouth; now just at that moment the balsam had acted on the stomach of Don Quixote, so, at the very instant when Sancho came to examine his mouth, he discharged all its contents with more force than a musket, and full into the beard of the compassionate squire.

"Holy Mary!" cried Sancho, "what is this that has happened me? Clearly this sinner is mortally wounded, as he vomits blood from the mouth;" but considering the matter a little more closely he perceived by the colour, taste, and smell, that it was not blood but the balsam from the flask which he had seen him drink; and he was taken with such a loathing that his stomach turned, and he vomited up his inside over his very master, and both were left in a precious state. Sancho ran to his *** to get something wherewith to clean himself, and relieve his master, out of his alforjas; but not finding them, he well-nigh took leave of his senses, and cursed himself anew, and in his heart resolved to quit his master and return home, even though he forfeited the wages of his service and all hopes of the promised island.

Cervantes intended to let the balsam out of Don Quixote's stomach at the moment when Sancho is examining into Don Quixote's mouth.

[grace86]

Drone, it is wonderful that you have decided to join us and that you are liking the idea of reading in a group. Sharing what you read with others is such an experience. Janine I think it was, said that reading can be lonely. I really like your proverb, I have a chinese proverb that is on my nameplates for my books, and it says "A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." I think that is so sweet.

Your passages are awesome and ones I remember. It is interesting how strong of a point Don Quixote makes about the great authors using the vernacular language. I think most people recognize and would like to think that a language like latin is I guess a classic language, but the authors he mentioned, they are great authors...and they wrote in their mother tongue. I guess he gives the reader something to learn.

Even Cervantes was a great author, and he wrote in his vernacular Spanish.

I was cracking up when I read that second passage right now! That one is unforgettable. I hadn't expected it in Don Quixote, such slapstick humor...but that part is really awesome.

When Sancho uses his proverbs, it is easy to see that he is so wise, but when he stacks the proverbs up one right after the other...it's kind of like "we get the point already Sancho!" which makes him all the funnier.

[Drone]

Today I found an episode in the chapters concerning the similar to the blank-tossing adventure where Sancho suffers another blow for which Don Quixote, his master, does nothing but run away like a coward. It is expected that the reason should take its side on Sancho's side since he is the one who suffers and his master is the one who deserts his squire in the peril. But to my surprise when Don Quixote sees his pitiful squire coming back lying across the dapple, instead of making apologize or some excuse(which suits for his cowardness), he sets out to scold Sancho immediately

Don Quixote dismounted to examine his wounds, but finding him whole from head to foot, he said to him, angrily enough, "In an evil hour didst thou take to braying, Sancho! Where hast thou learned that it is well done to mention the rope in the house of the man that has been hanged? To the music of brays what harmonies couldst thou expect to get but cudgels? Give thanks to God, Sancho, that they signed the cross on thee just now with a stick, and did not mark thee per signum crucis with a cutlass."

Then Don Quixote makes a crazy but also seemingly reasonable explanation for his running away which makes me rather speechless:

"He does not fly who retires," returned Don Quixote; "for I would have thee know, Sancho, that the valour which is not based upon a foundation of prudence is called rashness, and the exploits of the rash man are to be attributed rather to good fortune than to courage; and so I own that I retired, but not that I fled; and therein I have followed the example of many valiant men who have reserved themselves for better times; the histories are full of instances of this, but as it would not be any good to thee or pleasure to me, I will not recount them to thee now."

Later, Sancho, like a wife complaining and quarreling to her husband, threatens that he would leave Don Quixote and go back to home. See it's just like a wife who is left in a dangerous situation by her irresponsible husband wants to break up with him or forces the husband to give her some feeling of security next time by threatening to leave him.

But Don Quixote, either out of tactfulness in dealing with his company or of real carelessness of Sancho, says he does not care whether Sancho would leave him or not and starts right to dicuss with the payment that he shoud give Sancho to send him off. He appears so cold and cruel to Sancho!!

Talk away, my son, say whatever comes into your head or mouth, for so long as you feel no pain, the irritation your impertinences give me will he a pleasure to me; and if you are so anxious to go home to your wife and children, God forbid that I should prevent you; you have money of mine; see how long it is since we left our village this third time, and how much you can and ought to earn every month, and pay yourself out of your own hand."

As the long bargaining going on, Don Quixote grows more and more impatient and bursts out abusing our little Sancho fiercely:

Turn the rein, or the halter, of thy Dapple, and begone home; for one single step further thou shalt not make in my company. O bread thanklessly received! O promises ill-bestowed! O man more beast than human being! Now, when I was about to raise thee to such a position, that, in spite of thy wife, they would call thee 'my lord,' thou art leaving me? Thou art going now when I had a firm and fixed intention of making thee lord of the best island in the world? Well, as thou thyself hast said before now, honey is not for the mouth of the ***[taken to be an obscene word and obscured by the system, meaning "the dapple" actually], . *** thou art, *** thou wilt be, and *** thou wilt end when the course of thy life is run; for I know it will come to its close before thou dost perceive or discern that thou art a beast."

Sancho fails in this bargain or family quarrel and reduces himself to a much humbler position, clinging to Don Quixote just as the wife would submit to the husband in a quarrel in a male-dominated family.

Sancho regarded Don Quixote earnestly while he was giving him this rating, and was so touched by remorse that the tears came to his eyes, and in a piteous and broken voice he said to him, "Master mine, I confess that, to be a complete ***, all I want is a tail; if your worship will only fix one on to me, I'll look on it as rightly placed, and I'll serve you as an *** all the remaining days of my life. Forgive me and have pity on my folly, and remember I know but little, and, if I talk much, it's more from infirmity than malice; but he who sins and mends commends himself to God."

I has not experienced a marriage yet but thinks this kind of quarrel a typical one for the quarrel a couple would make during their married life. I'm afraid it's much painstaking for both but I believe there must be some fun in it or at least both would be moved to tears at last for the reunion. Anyway, this is only an adolescent speculation and imagination and I'd love to hear your views.

[Dori]

Can I join in on this? I know it might be a little late, but I can start at Chapter XXXIV in Part I. I'm a fast reader, at least most of the time, so I probably will be able to catch up with everyone in little time.

I tried reading this book a few months ago, but I couldn't stick with it. However, reading with a group is a whole different situation. How far has everyone gotten so far?

[NickAdams]

Can I join in on this? I know it might be a little late, but I can start at Chapter XXXIV in Part I. I'm a fast reader, at least most of the time, so I probably will be able to catch up with everyone in little time.

You're not late. From the looks of things this discussion will be going on for some time. I've been deeping my toe into the pole myself. I'm reading a little Beckett before I jump in.

[Dori]

All is well then. I will join in after I finish Fathers and Sons by Ivan Turgenev, which will most likely be thursday evening.

[NickAdams]

I will make my mark Thursday also.

[Sancho]

Howdy Y’all,
Buenos Dias Ustedes,

I can’t believe that I missed this thread; what with my handle and all. …Now I feel like such a simpleton…I feel so gullible.

I enjoyed reading through everyone’s comments and impressions of Don Quixote. I probably can’t add much to the discussion since it’s been years since I read it and also because I read it for other than literary purposes.

A few years ago I started reading everything I could find about the history of the Americas. Naturally the Spanish played a huge part in the – (you choose the noun) [discovery/invasion/conquest/colonization] of the Americas, so I wanted to know what life was like for the average Joe living in Spain during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Don Quixote was like a splendid time machine and Sancho Panza was the conduit to the common folk: the shop-keepers, the barbers, the fish mongers, the hiway robbers, the whores, the bums etc. I loved it; I think sometimes a novel is a better history than a history.

Anyway, one of these days I’m going to reread it and try to give it a good close reading, but that’ll have to wait until I have a couple of months to spare and preferably during the dead of winter. Yes, and maybe in a mountain cabin, next to a crackling fire, in a cozy wing-backed chair, with a snoring dog of dubious ancestry at my feet, and a steamy mug Irish coffee on the end table… whoops, I’m drifting again.

[Dori]

It appears that I will be able to join in sooner than I thought. I didn't expect finishing Fathers and Sons today.

I've been reading about different translations that have been mentioned on this site, but I haven't seen anyone mention the Walter Starkie translation. Does anyone else have the Starkie translation published by Signet Classics? I came to own this copy out of a friend's charity---or should I say disgust? My friend read about 150 pages into the book and said it was too much for him. And he reads more than I do! So he gave it to me. And to think I would have never come across such a book hadn't my friend hated it. Ironic.

I will start by reading a little tonight (it's 11:15 pm where I live). I look forward to discussing this book with everyone!

[grace86]

I am glad to see that so many have decided to join. Lately I've been a bit busy moving (check my blog out for more info if you want to) and so my reading has taken second place.

There is NO set time we have for finishing Don Quixote, just doing is so that we can all discuss it with others. For those who have started reading it, there are some parts that just need to be talked about...like the vomit passage mentioned above.

So read at your leisure. I'm no professional at translations, but I am beginning to think that Don Quixote is one of the most translated books.

Drone sorry to leave you hanging! The part where you talk about how badly Quixote treats Sancho at times is something I too noticed. He doesn't do it often, but he does it more than once. I am still not far after the beginning of the second part...but Quixote treats Sancho badly again when they are about to depart on their third sally. Sancho wasn't too sure he wanted to go, and Quixote tells him it is okay, because he will find another squire...because after all who wouldn't want Sancho's place? Remember Quixote had Sancho at such tears when that other guy....I cannot remember his name, was willing to take his place...so Sancho finally decided to go.

I am not sure if it is when Quixote is in his sane or intelligent moods that he treats Sancho so poorly.

Glad you're enjoying the second portion.

[Dori]

I just came across a passage that made me laugh out loud for the first time since I resumed this book. It takes place in part one when they are at the inn, just after the captive and the judge, realizing they are brothers, are reunited.

From Part I, Chapter XLII, which treats of what further took place in the inn, and of several other things worth knowing:

Don Quixote offered to mount
guard over the castle lest they should be attacked by some giant or
other malevolent scoundrel, covetous of the great treasure of beauty
the castle contained. Those who understood him returned him thanks for
this service, and they gave the Judge an account of his
extraordinary humour, with which he was not a little amused. Sancho
Panza alone was fuming at the lateness of the hour for retiring to
rest; and he of all was the one that made himself most comfortable, as
he stretched himself on the trappings of his ***, which, as will be
told farther on, cost him so dear.

The ladies, then, having retired to their chamber, and the others
having disposed themselves with as little discomfort as they could,
Don Quixote sallied out of the inn to act as sentinel of the castle as
he had promised.

I find it hilarious that Quixote thinks the inn is a castle. I also found some humor in the next chapter. I will quote a passage:

From Part I, Chapter XLIII, wherein is related the pleasant story of the muleteer, together with other strange things that come to pass in the inn:

Maritornes felt sure that Don Quixote would present the hand she had
asked, and making up her mind what to do, she got down from the hole
and went into the stable, where she took the halter of Sancho
Panza's ***, and in all haste returned to the hole, just as Don
Quixote had planted himself standing on Rocinante's saddle in order to
reach the grated window where he supposed the lovelorn damsel to be;
and giving her his hand, he said, "Lady, take this hand, or rather
this scourge of the evil-doers of the earth; take, I say, this hand
which no other hand of woman has ever touched, not even hers who has
complete possession of my entire body. I present it to you, not that
you may kiss it, but that you may observe the contexture of the
sinews, the close network of the muscles, the breadth and capacity
of the veins, whence you may infer what must be the strength of the
arm that has such a hand."

"That we shall see presently," said Maritornes, and making a running
knot on the halter, she passed it over his wrist and coming down
from the hole tied the other end very firmly to the bolt of the door
of the straw-loft.

Don Quixote, feeling the roughness of the rope on his wrist,
exclaimed, "Your grace seems to be grating rather than caressing my
hand; treat it not so harshly, for it is not to blame for the
offence my resolution has given you, nor is it just to wreak all
your vengeance on so small a part; remember that one who loves so well
should not revenge herself so cruelly."

But there was nobody now to listen to these words of Don
Quixote's, for as soon as Maritornes had tied him she and the other
made off, ready to die with laughing, leaving him fastened in such a
way that it was impossible for him to release himself.

He was, as has been said, standing on Rocinante, with his arm passed
through the hole and his wrist tied to the bolt of the door, and in
mighty fear and dread of being left hanging by the arm if Rocinante
were to stir one side or the other; so he did not dare to make the
least movement, although from the patience and imperturbable
disposition of Rocinante, he had good reason to expect that he would
stand without budging for a whole century. Finding himself fast, then,
and that the ladies had retired, he began to fancy that all this was
done by enchantment, as on the former occasion when in that same
castle that enchanted Moor of a carrier had belaboured him; and he
cursed in his heart his own want of sense and judgment in venturing to
enter the castle again, after having come off so badly the first time;
it being a settled point with knights-errant that when they have tried
an adventure, and have not succeeded in it, it is a sign that it is
not reserved for them but for others, and that therefore they need not
try it again. Nevertheless he pulled his arm to see if he could
release himself, but it had been made so fast that all his efforts
were in vain. It is true he pulled it gently lest Rocinante should
move, but try as he might to seat himself in the saddle, he had
nothing for it but to stand upright or pull his hand off.

What did everyone else think of this scene? I somewhat felt bad for Don Quixote, but I still couldn't resist laughing.

The vomit scene quoted above by Drone is another one of my favorite scenes.

[Virgil]

I'm back from vacation. I made my goal of completing the first book. Now I will take a litle breather and move on to Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse for August. I will return to Don Quixote in September. But i did scribble notes in my book and I shall occaisionally post here as I get the chance.

Glad to see so many are enjoying it. I think it's a great work.