The True Satan?

[weepingforloman]

I don't think I ever suggested Satan is inexorable. And, yes, we are most certainly disposed to evil ourselves.

[Warm-Blooded]

let me tell you that there are alot of devils dwell inside everyhuman , as there are alot of them outside humans .
The satan has no place perfectly to stay in but he ordered his assistants to spoil every human's life because he envys them and he bears a grudge against them .

[NikolaiI]

let me tell you that there are alot of devils dwell inside everyhuman , as there are alot of them outside humans .
The satan has no place perfectly to stay in but he ordered his assistants to spoil every human's life because he envys them and he bears a grudge against them .

why do you believe this? who told you this? have you seen it? would you believe something just because someone told it to you? then why not believe those who tell you it is not so?

[Pendragon]

I don't think I ever suggested Satan is inexorable. And, yes, we are most certainly disposed to evil ourselves.

In the sense that "inexorable" can mean "relentless", yes, Satan is that. That is shown clearly in the book of Job. When one tactic doesn't work, he seeks permission for another, vowing to make Job curse God to His (God's) face. But man, as AP put it on the now defunt Evolution vs Creation thread, natural has an animal nature. We cannot keep it at bay forever. Think about simple road-rage. Some cuts you off in traffic and you blow your stack. Blame that on Satan or yourself, for a lack of self-control?

[Redzeppelin]

Think about simple road-rage. Some cuts you off in traffic and you blow your stack. Blame that on Satan or yourself, for a lack of self-control?

A mixture of all three - the ratios depend upon the makeup of the individual.

[subterranean]

Would anyone care of quoting the Bible or any other religious texts in this discussion?

This is a Religious Texts thread, by the way and hence supposed to be a source where we can learn more about religions in the world through the discussion of their sacred texts.

[Pendragon]

OK. Sub, although I did bring up Job.

Galations 5: [13] For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
[14] For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[15] But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
[16] This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[18] But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[20] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[21] Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Notice how the flesh is given over to do things that are wrong. Paul states "Flesh." He doesn't strickly say this is the fault of Satan. Of course, Satan is going to take what he can get and work with it. But the nature of the flesh is born into a man or woman.

The spirit gives one a different outlook, even to self-control (temperance), and a Christian is supposed to act diffrently. But how easily our animal nature takes over! Romans Chapter 7.

God Bless

Pen

[PrinceMyshkin]

Matthew 6:34 "Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Personally I wish this were equally applicable to yesterday... as far back as that reaches, for it is only by attending closely and clear-sightedly to the evils of this day - the psychological, sociological and economic reasons for it - that we may hope to deal with and defeat it.

Satan is a metaphor, a convenient short-hand for the deformities of our hearts caused by human insensitivity, cruelty and injustice.

[stephofthenight]

not sure that this is on topic, but where did satan come from, i mean i know he was gods higest angel...but when did god create him, and did adam and eve or noah come first???
steph

[Pendragon]

You know, Prince, I believe this would be on topic. Joe Walsh of the Eagles wrote a song called "One Day At a Time" that The Eagles have being preforming at their "Farewell" Tour.

Part of the song goes:

"I finally figured out that I was the problem.
And quit laying the blame on everybody's soulders but mine
It was something I was too blind to see
I got help from something greater than me
And now I'm living my life one day at a time."

Words to live by. If everyone quit blaming everyone but themselves for what's wrong with the world and did their part to fix it, we might get somewhere!

God Bless

Pen

[Warm-Blooded]

why do you believe this? who told you this? have you seen it? would you believe something just because someone told it to you? then why not believe those who tell you it is not so?

oh I am sorry I didn't notice your reply while posting .

I believe this because my religion said to me to believe that there're alot of devils want to spoil my life and deport me out of the Heaven where he was exiled too .

didn't you notify that there's someone inside you leading you into bad deeds you did ?

the human has a independent identity and he can lead himself where he want .
let me stop here and tell you that there's another foe for the human it's a instinct of violence , pleasure , evil as well as influence of Satan inside the human .....
Then the human have to triumph over all of evils lurking in him

I am sorry for my bad english

[weepingforloman]

In the sense that "inexorable" can mean "relentless", yes, Satan is that. That is shown clearly in the book of Job. When one tactic doesn't work, he seeks permission for another, vowing to make Job curse God to His (God's) face. But man, as AP put it on the now defunt Evolution vs Creation thread, natural has an animal nature. We cannot keep it at bay forever. Think about simple road-rage. Some cuts you off in traffic and you blow your stack. Blame that on Satan or yourself, for a lack of self-control?

I mean, by inexorable, sovereign. Satan does not have all power over us. He too is under the total authority of God.

I certainly do not deny the evil of man in and of himself. I thoroughly believe in total depravity (though this doctrine does not mean what some would have it mean).

Matthew 6:34 "Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Personally I wish this were equally applicable to yesterday... as far back as that reaches, for it is only by attending closely and clear-sightedly to the evils of this day - the psychological, sociological and economic reasons for it - that we may hope to deal with and defeat it.

Satan is a metaphor, a convenient short-hand for the deformities of our hearts caused by human insensitivity, cruelty and injustice.

Certainly we have our own share of evil. But that does not make Satan a nonentity. I believe in the corruption both of our own hearts and of a mighty spirit we call Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub/the devil.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Certainly we have our own share of evil. But that does not make Satan a nonentity. I believe in the corruption both of our own hearts and of a mighty spirit we call Satan/Lucifer/Beelzebub/the devil.

Do you never feel that this is akin to and somewhat on the same level as what was spoken of as the Bogey-man?

What are the chances that you might assist in preventing the rise of some local Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mugabe or Pol Pot if you are looking out for some red-faced horned and tailed mythological figure or if you prefer the spiritual phantasmagorical equivalent thereof?

It is in this and similar respects that I think religion is not merely wrong but deleterious to our political, material growth and well-being.

[weepingforloman]

No, I do not find it detrimental to our socio-political health to be aware of Satan. I don't see how that relates, actually, because if we are alert and watching for evil from a being who is non-physical and is believed to influence the hearts of men, wouldn't we be on the lookout for evil from the sort of men you mentioned?

[Redzeppelin]

Do you never feel that this is akin to and somewhat on the same level as what was spoken of as the Bogey-man?

C.S. Lewis said that one of Satan's greatest achievements is his success at convincing the world that he doesn't exist. Proof positive just .5" above.

What are the chances that you might assist in preventing the rise of some local Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Mugabe or Pol Pot if you are looking out for some red-faced horned and tailed mythological figure or if you prefer the spiritual phantasmagorical equivalent thereof?

Here we go again: the same idea you've posted elsewhere: Christians do not deal with reality but with some fantastic "mythological" world. Absurd. A belief in God necessitates a belief in Satan; if you believe in neither, fine - but please lay off the ridiculous assertion that Christians are not paying attention to the world; as a matter of fact, part of the reason we're so insistent about certain issues (morality, for instance) is that we're paying VERY close attention to the direction the world is heading.

It is in this and similar respects that I think religion is not merely wrong but deleterious to our political, material growth and well-being.

This doesn't sound very tolerant - and we're supposed to be tolerant of ideologies we don't agree with - aren't we? If I posted the same sentence replacing the word "religion" with "homosexuality," I'd get quite a response - wouldn't I?