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Thread: Yeats Reading Group

  1. #1
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    Yeats Reading Group

    THE OLD MEN ADMIRING THEMSELVES IN THE WATER


    I HEARD the old, old men say,
    “Everything alters,
    And one by one we drop away.”
    They had hands like claws, and their knees
    Were twisted like the old thorn-trees
    By the waters.
    I heard the old, old men say,
    “All that’s beautiful drifts away
    Like the waters.”
    I'd like to start a thread in which we would discuss Yeat's poems. I decided to start with this poem. I am not used to his poems, this is one among the first that I have ever read, but I was stroke by the beauty of his poems. What do you believe? Post other poems, comment,do whatever you wish. Who'd wish to participate in this reading group?
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

  2. #2
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    When you are old


    When you are old and gray and full of sleep
    And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
    And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
    Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;

    How many loved your moments of glad grace,
    And loved your beauty with love false or true;
    But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
    And loved the sorrows of your changing face.

    And bending down beside the glowing bars,
    Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled
    And paced upon the mountains overhead,
    And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
    Last edited by downing; 07-19-2007 at 03:06 PM.
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Oh Downing. I love Yeats's poems. I will drop in occaisionally, but I'm overwhelmed with all the groups I'm currently participating in.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

  4. #4
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    Sure Virg. It will be a pleasure to see you in the thread
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

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    Our wee Olympic swimmer Janine's Avatar
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    Nice thread, Downing, I can't wait to discover more of Yeats poems. I am only a little familiar with his work. I like the two very much that you have posted. Like Virgil, I am overwhelmed too, but will try to participate or at least drop in, from time to time, to see what has been posted. Thanks for starting this thread!
    "It's so mysterious, the land of tears."

    Chapter 7, The Little Prince ~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

  6. #6
    Of Subatomic Importance Quark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downing View Post
    When you are old


    When you are old and gray and full of sleep
    And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
    And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
    Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;

    How many loved your moments of glad grace,
    And loved your beauty with love false or true;
    But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
    And loved the sorrows of your changing face.

    And bending down beside the glowing bars,
    Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled
    And paced upon the mountains overhead,
    And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
    Yes, this is a great poem. It has all that tension between the ideal and the circumstantial. The first lovers that the poem mentions adore for the person's current beauty while the last lover is attracted to the looks which change but still remain beautiful. This love is further idealized when it's pictured with its "face amid a crowd of stars". This poem seems favor the second admirer, but others of Yeats' poems suggest that the current reality is better than the ideal. For example, "A Dialogue of Self and Soul" gives the self more importance over the soul. The self argues intensely for the immediate, temporal world over the immortal and imagined one. The soul offers boring platitudes to counter the self, but the self ultimately prevails. Yeats even awards the self the final half of the poem. However conclusive a victory this may appear, it seems like Yeats preferred the opposite in this poem. Maybe, if there is a switch here between the two poems, we might see some tension in poems found between the two. I don't know. It's just entertaining--that's all
    Last edited by Quark; 07-19-2007 at 08:03 PM.
    "Par instants je suis le Pauvre Navire
    [...] Par instants je meurs la mort du Pecheur
    [...] O mais! par instants"

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    Registered User aeroport's Avatar
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    I actually became really interested and bought his 'Collected Poems' (ed. Richard Pennerin) last spring when we were studying some of his poetry and drama in Irish Lit, but I've hardly read a single thing from it since! I think I'll participate.
    We naturally did "Easter 1916", which I found awesome for its ambiguities (and which I've discussed somewhere else on the Forum, the location of which eludes me), and a few others. I'll be reading some more now, and will drop by sometimes to comment.

  8. #8
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Yes, this is a great poem. It has all that tension between the ideal and the circumstantial. The first lovers that the poem mentions adore for the person's current beauty while the last lover is attracted to the looks which change but still remain beautiful. This love is further idealized when it's pictured with its "face amid a crowd of stars". This poem seems favor the second admirer, but others of Yeats' poems suggest that the current reality is better than the ideal. For example, "A Dialogue of Self and Soul" gives the self more importance over the soul. The self argues intensely for the immediate, temporal world over the immortal and imagined one. The soul offers boring platitudes to counter the self, but the self ultimately prevails. Yeats even awards the self the final half of the poem. However conclusive a victory this may appear, it seems like Yeats preferred the opposite in this poem. Maybe, if there is a switch here between the two poems, we might see some tension in poems found between the two. I don't know. It's just entertaining--that's all

    Thank you Quark for commenting. You said some very interesting things. And thanks for telling us about the poem ''A Dialogue of Self and Soul''-I will read it with high interest.

    And bending down beside the glowing bars,
    Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled
    And paced upon the mountains overhead,
    And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
    I believe that the love which fled is the ego's love interest who passed away. The great imagery makes me see the starry celestial dome. I think that the last line refers to the popular belief that when a person dies, he becomes a star.

    Of course, Jamesian, come into the thread and comment. Glad to see you here!
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

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    Ditsy Pixie Niamh's Avatar
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    Excellent! I am a lover of Yeats poetry. I'm on for a discussion group!
    "Come away O human child!To the waters of the wild, With a faery hand in hand, For the worlds more full of weeping than you can understand."
    W.B.Yeats

    "If it looks like a Dwarf and smells like a Dwarf, then it's probably a Dwarf (or a latrine wearing dungarees)"
    Artemins Fowl and the Lost Colony by Eoin Colfer


    my poems-please comment Forum Rules

  10. #10
    Something's gotta give PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
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    To fully appreciate thisd great poem of Yeats one needs to know something of the theosophical beliefs he held, which I suggest any of you might wish to investigate:
    http://www.yeatsvision.com/Theosophy.html
    http://www.yeatsvision.com/Vedanta.html
    http://www.wvup.edu/Academics/humani...tler_yeats.htm

    The Second Coming

    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all convictions, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


    You are 14?!!!!

  11. #11
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    Great poem, Prince Myshkin! Thanks for posting it and also thank you for the sites which seem to be very useful.

    You are 14?!!!!
    What's the problem,Prince?
    Last edited by downing; 07-23-2007 at 01:22 PM.
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

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    Ditsy Pixie Niamh's Avatar
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    I love the way Yeats repeats the image of a gyre in his later poems. I think it was also in "Sailing to Byzantium".
    "Come away O human child!To the waters of the wild, With a faery hand in hand, For the worlds more full of weeping than you can understand."
    W.B.Yeats

    "If it looks like a Dwarf and smells like a Dwarf, then it's probably a Dwarf (or a latrine wearing dungarees)"
    Artemins Fowl and the Lost Colony by Eoin Colfer


    my poems-please comment Forum Rules

  13. #13
    Something's gotta give PrinceMyshkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downing View Post
    Great poem, Prince Myshkin! Thanks for posting it and also thank you for the sites which seem to be very useful.



    What's the problem,Prince?
    NO PROBLEM whatsoever, but astonished admiration! I have a grandson who is 14 and no slouch, I assure you, but I haven't encountered in him your depth of love for Yeats.

    Did you know, btw, that Yeats felt a great kinship with Blake, and in the face of the general neglect that had befallen Blakes' work, Yeats and a scholar published the complete works of Blake, with the latter's illustrations, and a critical work expounding Blake's philosphical beliefs, which led to the revival of interest in Blake.

    And do you know WH Auden's marvellous poem on the occasion of Yeats' death, which begins
    Earth, receive an honoured guest,
    WB Yeats is laid to rest

    (quoting from memory.) And if I get up the nerve I might add here a trilogy I wrote in imitation of and in tribute to Yeats.

  14. #14
    Ars longa, vita brevis downing's Avatar
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    In Memory of WB Yeats by WH Auden



    I
    He disappeared in the dead of winter:
    The brooks were frozen, the airports almost deserted,
    And snow disfigured the public statues;
    The mercury sank in the mouth of the dying day.
    What instruments we have agree
    The day of his death was a dark cold day.

    Far from his illness
    The wolves ran on through the evergreen forests,
    The peasant river was untempted by the fashionable quays;
    By mourning tongues
    The death of the poet was kept from his poems.

    But for him it was his last afternoon as himself,
    An afternoon of nurses and rumours;
    The provinces of his body revolted,
    The squares of his mind were empty,
    Silence invaded the suburbs,
    The current of his feeling failed; he became his admirers.

    Now he is scattered among a hundred cities
    And wholly given over to unfamiliar affections,
    To find his happiness in another kind of wood
    And be punished under a foreign code of conscience.
    The words of a dead man
    Are modified in the guts of the living.

    But in the importance and noise of to-morrow
    When the brokers are roaring like beasts on the floor of the Bourse,
    And the poor have the sufferings to which they are fairly accustomed,
    And each in the cell of himself is almost convinced of his freedom,
    A few thousand will think of this day
    As one thinks of a day when one did something slightly unusual.

    What instruments we have agree
    The day of his death was a dark cold day.

    II

    You were silly like us; your gift survived it all:
    The parish of rich women, physical decay,
    Yourself. Mad Ireland hurt you into poetry.
    Now Ireland has her madness and her weather still,
    For poetry makes nothing happen: it survives
    In the valley of its making where executives
    Would never want to tamper, flows on south
    From ranches of isolation and the busy griefs,
    Raw towns that we believe and die in; it survives,
    A way of happening, a mouth.




    III

    Earth, receive an honoured guest:
    William Yeats is laid to rest.
    Let the Irish vessel lie
    Emptied of its poetry.

    In the nightmare of the dark
    All the dogs of Europe bark,
    And the living nations wait,
    Each sequestered in its hate;

    Intellectual disgrace
    Stares from every human face,
    And the seas of pity lie
    Locked and frozen in each eye.

    Follow, poet, follow right
    To the bottom of the night,
    With your unconstraining voice
    Still persuade us to rejoice;

    With the farming of a verse
    Make a vineyard of the curse,
    Sing of human unsuccess
    In a rapture of distress;

    In the deserts of the heart
    Let the healing fountain start,
    In the prison of his days
    Teach the free man how to praise.

    Thanks, Prince Myshkin for the precious information you offered me. Very interesting things which I didn't know. I found the poem you were telling me about and I also found within it the verses you quoted.

    And if I get up the nerve I might add here a trilogy I wrote in imitation of and in tribute to Yeats.
    Please, do! That must be great and I can hardly wait to read it!

    NO PROBLEM whatsoever, but astonished admiration! I have a grandson who is 14 and no slouch, I assure you, but I haven't encountered in him your depth of love for Yeats.
    You made my blush,Prince. I have myself recently discovered Yeats and perhaps your grandson appreciates more other poets...who knows
    Dream as though you'll live forever, live as though you'll die today (James Dean)

  15. #15
    seasonably mediocre Il Penseroso's Avatar
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    This one I think is a bit underrated (tough to say for Yeats though). I never hear it talked about.

    A Prayer for my Daughter
    William Butler Yeats


    Once more the storm is howling, and half hid
    Under this cradle-hood and coverlid
    My child sleeps on. There is no obstacle
    But Gregory's wood and one bare hill
    Whereby the haystack- and roof-levelling wind,
    Bred on the Atlantic, can be stayed;
    And for an hour I have walked and prayed
    Because of the great gloom that is in my mind.

    I have walked and prayed for this young child an hour
    And heard the sea-wind scream upon the tower,
    And under the arches of the bridge, and scream
    In the elms above the flooded stream;
    Imagining in excited reverie
    That the future years had come,
    Dancing to a frenzied drum,
    Out of the murderous innocence of the sea.

    May she be granted beauty and yet not
    Beauty to make a stranger's eye distraught,
    Or hers before a looking-glass, for such,
    Being made beautiful overmuch,
    Consider beauty a sufficient end,
    Lose natural kindness and maybe
    The heart-revealing intimacy
    That chooses right, and never find a friend.

    Helen being chosen found life flat and dull
    And later had much trouble from a fool,
    While that great Queen, that rose out of the spray,
    Being fatherless could have her way
    Yet chose a bandy-leggd smith for man.
    It's certain that fine women eat
    A crazy salad with their meat
    Whereby the Horn of Plenty is undone.

    In courtesy I'd have her chiefly learned;
    Hearts are not had as a gift but hearts are earned
    By those that are not entirely beautiful;
    Yet many, that have played the fool
    For beauty's very self, has charm made wise,
    And many a poor man that has roved,
    Loved and thought himself beloved,
    From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.

    May she become a flourishing hidden tree
    That all her thoughts may like the linnet be,
    And have no business but dispensing round
    Their magnanimities of sound,
    Nor but in merriment begin a chase,
    Nor but in merriment a quarrel.
    O may she live like some green laurel
    Rooted in one dear perpetual place.

    My mind, because the minds that I have loved,
    The sort of beauty that I have approved,
    Prosper but little, has dried up of late,
    Yet knows that to be choked with hate
    May well be of all evil chances chief.
    If there's no hatred in a mind
    Assault and battery of the wind
    Can never tear the linnet from the leaf.

    An intellectual hatred is the worst,
    So let her think opinions are accursed.
    Have I not seen the loveliest woman born
    Out of the mouth of Plenty's horn,
    Because of her opinionated mind
    Barter that horn and every good
    By quiet natures understood
    For an old bellows full of angry wind?

    Considering that, all hatred driven hence,
    The soul recovers radical innocence
    And learns at last that it is self-delighting,
    Self-appeasing, self-affrighting,
    And that its own sweet will is Heaven's will;
    She can, though every face should scowl
    And every windy quarter howl
    Or every bellows burst, be happy still.

    And may her bridegroom bring her to a house
    Where all's accustomed, ceremonious;
    For arrogance and hatred are the wares
    Peddled in the thoroughfares.
    How but in custom and in ceremony
    Are innocence and beauty born?
    Ceremony's a name for the rich horn,
    And custom for the spreading laurel tree.

    June 1919
    and somehow a dog
    has taken itself & its tail considerably away
    into the mountains or sea or sky, leaving
    behind: me, wag.
    - John Berryman

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