Yes, McMurphy standing up against authority (the nurse) makes him a hero in my opinion. This relationship is symbolic of the masses (citizens) standing up against a too controlling government.Originally Posted by Turk
Yes, McMurphy standing up against authority (the nurse) makes him a hero in my opinion. This relationship is symbolic of the masses (citizens) standing up against a too controlling government.
"I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos
I think we need to look at the reasons why he is rebelling. He is not doing it because he likes the patients. He starts doing it for a bet & then continues doing it because he enjoys getting a rise out of her. He is not another ideological Spartacus standing up for the weak against the forces of oppression.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
I don’t think that standing up to authority makes one a hero. If my kids stand up to me they sure don’t gain hero status. I’m sure at times I seem like nurse Ratched to them. I think that on the whole, in spite of overindulging, he’s a basically good guy. He wouldn’t intentionally hurt people unless he felt they had it coming. He would prefer to take from the rich over the poor. Even though he has superficial relationships with women, I don’t think he hates women or misuses them. He has great pleasure in life no matter how crappy things get he finds pleasure, even if it is base pleasure. That may be a redeemable quality.
A lot of people don’t deal well with what they do or see in war. I think Chief was a very sensitive person who was himself injured when he saw others treated unjustly. I think it is very interesting that he used to be afraid of being lost and vulnerable in the fog, but now he embraces it as a security blanket. I think he is very insightful and intuitive, even if he doesn’t see things realistically he understands.
I didn't say just rebelling makes him a hero. But at least in movie he wasn't seem like someone just rebels for enjoy. I said i didn't read the novel; i will, but in movie he was attacking the nurse; because, because of nurse one of patients got killed himself. If McMurphy would be a rebel just for his enjoyment and doesn't care about patients, then he wouldn't attack nurse for that reason.
I dont want to get to into the specifics of that incident you refer incase people are unfamiliar with the story, but I will address it once folk finish reading.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
This may be a spoiler,
I have gotten further into the book and he has started challenging the nurse the again. I think he started again, in spite of the trouble it will surely bring him, because he sees these fellows as totally crushed and unable to stand up for themselves. I think that he sees his own shortcomings, but still thinks he’s OK. He has a song in his heart, he is joyful, he enjoys life, and he won’t let them take his … stones. The others see their shortcomings and can’t live with it. I think that to him this is the biggest problem the acutes have. They let people have power over them and he would never allow that. I think he thinks that if he shows them they don’t have to take it they won’t and will have more confidence and self-respect. I think in this way he is sacrificing himself, or his freedom, for the sake of the others.
At least I think that is what he thinks right now. I’m about 4/5th of the way done.
Mother, you're gonna have to refresh my memory on the exact incidents you are referring to (read it what is now 8/9 years ago & working from memory)
This does touch on a point I want to address also, Kesey's trivialisation of the problems faced by the acutes and underlying opinion that there is nothing wrong with them & they are in someways "better" than normal people because they refuse to conform to society.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
I don't think Kesey trivializes the problems faced by the acutes, (nor are better than "normal" people) instead, I think he alludes to the fact that the acutes have problems that are not uncommon in people who are not in a mental institition. It is a good study to consider each character and why they are actually in the institution. They are all voluntary except for McMurphy. This is an important fact.
McMurphy does point out "faults" in the patients, and tries to encourage them to overcome them. One is that most patients have a loss of assertiveness when it comes to expressing their opinion. McMurphy tries to encourage the patients to speak their truth which is obviously a very hard thing to do in front of the nurse since she overpowers them with her authority to the point of mindless conformity. The patients are reduced to sheep, following the herd rather than expressing their individuality.
Yes, one could certainly make an argument that McMurphy is a Christ figure in this story.
No, you are right- just standing up to authority doesn't automatically make one a hero, but standing up to authority in the context where you find that authority is repressing others' rights and committing acts of abuse and violence and injustice, then yes, that would make one a hero. This is exactly what McMurphy does.
"I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos
I just finished the book. I’m not adding it to the read again list, but I thought it was ok. At the end it occurred to me that during both the movie and the play I left during the EST. I’m such a baby.
possible spoiler
As for the hero status of McMurphy, I’m still kind of wishy-washy. There were certainly several Biblical references, 12 followers - bed shaped like a cross…But I don’t know. I’m glad he won, I’m glad the men found their courage.
At the end Nurse Ratched reminded me of a mother with Munchausen by Proxy. They are all better, so much better and she has to take them down a notch. She needs them to be sick.
any other thoughts?
Now that people seem to have finished reading I have some other points I want to address/clarify why I believe. Hopefully will get it done and posted by the end of Saturday.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
I'm about halfway through the book, I think it's a good read. Although I don't care much for the parts where Bromden is into his hallucinations.
Describing things in terms of machinery seems to be in keeping with how the patients and even the hospital staff are being made to function like machines, like clockwork.
I was still a child when the movie came out, I went to watch it with my parents. I hardly remember it; and I don't think I even understood much of the story at that time.
Referencing the movie, many commentators on Jack Nicholson's role have said that he has to have a little crazy in him to play it so well. This seems to have helped him in many other films. In this particular rendition of the book, he injects an element of sane and crazy that is the catalyst for all the other actors to play off of. This is the man's genious...that he can employ his personal exteme to create an atmosphere at once sane and insane. When he intoduces all the patients on the fishing boat as doctors, it is believeable and to the authority...probable. quasimodo1
Nicholson is good in the film (when is he not) The main problem with the film (& the fishing scene in particular) is that is completely different from the book.
There once was a scotsman named Drew
Who put too much wine in his stew
He felt a bit drunk
And fell off his bunk
And landed smack into his shoe ~(C) Ms Niamh Anne King
Well I started reading this a few days ago, but I don't want to read too many of the posts here in case something gets spoiled! :x!! I'm loving it so far.
I love how reality is spun and turned into this other reality. Love ittt. (:
"It is when the feet weary and hope seems vain that the heartaches and the longings arise. Know, then, that for you is neither surfeit nor content. In your rocking chair, by your window dreaming, shall you long, alone. In your rocking chair, by your window, shall you dream such happiness as you may never feel."
-- Sister Carrie
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