Zen

[NikolaiI]

Someone asked, "What am I?"
Guangfan answered, "There is nothing in the whole universe that is not you."

In a spirit of learning and discovery, I'd like to start a thread about Zen, specifically the teachings of compassion in it. Of course there are lots of resources online, and I'm reading those too, but also real-time conversations (so to speak) could be useful and enlightening.

For instance, how we view ourselves seperate from each other. The Buddha taught that we are not seperate, but all part of the same thing. The neighbour and the self are not seperate.

Um, this is an interesting Dharma talk I found at Youtube. She says a very beautiful thing about not being seperate. When you cut your arm, you don't have to stop and think about whether or not you're going to put a bandage on it. You just do, to stop the bleeding. In the same way, if our neighbour is hurting, it's the same, how can I help you? Automatic.

I just thought that was interesting and wanted to share it, and start a thread. The link to that is below.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UV2sJfyPk


I know Zen is a form of Buddhism. I've only read one book about it, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, and I guess also one essay by Alan Watts. Any ideas for me about Zen texts, precepts, further reading, etc? Thx.

[Logos]

If you could somehow edit your first post to include questions about a zen/Buddhist text? like the precepts? sutras? it can stay open ...otherwise, please see the rules for this forum here:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=15410

[NikolaiI]

Sure, does that work?

[Logos]

yes, thankyouverymuch

[weepingforloman]

Someone asked, "What am I?"
Guangfan answered, "There is nothing in the whole universe that is not you."

In a spirit of learning and discovery, I'd like to start a thread about Zen, specifically the teachings of compassion in it. Of course there are lots of resources online, and I'm reading those too, but also real-time conversations (so to speak) could be useful and enlightening.

For instance, how we view ourselves seperate from each other. The Buddha taught that we are not seperate, but all part of the same thing. The neighbour and the self are not seperate.

Um, this is an interesting Dharma talk I found at Youtube. She says a very beautiful thing about not being seperate. When you cut your arm, you don't have to stop and think about whether or not you're going to put a bandage on it. You just do, to stop the bleeding. In the same way, if our neighbour is hurting, it's the same, how can I help you? Automatic.

I just thought that was interesting and wanted to share it, and start a thread. The link to that is below.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y6UV2sJfyPk


I know Zen is a form of Buddhism. I've only read one book about it, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, and I guess also one essay by Alan Watts. Any ideas for me about Zen texts, precepts, further reading, etc? Thx.

I would just like to comment that the only real difference between this particular aspect of Buddhism and Christ's discourse on loving one's neighbor is the separateness of souls. Buddhism wipes away the difference (I'm not sure, but I believe some Buddhist groups still use the term Brahman for the Universal Soul), and Christianity emphasizes it, making the sacrifice of one's own interests the primary point of morality. I just thought I'd point out how similar they are, on this point at least.

[NikolaiI]

Yeah. Did you watch the video?

[weepingforloman]

Yeah. Did you watch the video?

I just did, but I hadn't when I posted that... Interesting coincidence. However, I think it is possible to love your neighbor without being the same, it just requires moral effort to move beyond mere likes or dislikes. Still, it is better to disagree on theological things and agree on moral things, so long as we do what is right, than it is to agree in theology and do wrong.

Grace and Peace.

[NikolaiI]

Yeah, isn't she an amazing teacher?

[Dark Star]

I would just like to comment that the only real difference between this particular aspect of Buddhism and Christ's discourse on loving one's neighbor is the separateness of souls. Buddhism wipes away the difference (I'm not sure, but I believe some Buddhist groups still use the term Brahman for the Universal Soul), and Christianity emphasizes it, making the sacrifice of one's own interests the primary point of morality. I just thought I'd point out how similar they are, on this point at least.

Mmm....I think you're approaching this from the right direction, but alas, the devil's in the details. One of the big doctrines of Buddhism is the 'Doctrine of No-Soul' or (obviously) that no soul exists. Perhaps being part of the same (a universal) consciousness would be better terminology. Or....damn. My mind is currently going blank on the correct way to word this, so hopefully someone else can take up the torch. Or I'll come up with the words I was looking for a later time, perhaps.

[JGL57]

...I'd like to start a thread about Zen, specifically the teachings of compassion in it. Of course there are lots of resources online, and I'm reading those too, but also real-time conversations (so to speak) could be useful and enlightening.

For instance, how we view ourselves seperate from each other. The Buddha taught that we are not seperate, but all part of the same thing. The neighbour and the self are not seperate.
...

I know Zen is a form of Buddhism. I've only read one book about it, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, and I guess also one essay by Alan Watts. Any ideas for me about Zen texts, precepts, further reading, etc? Thx.

I have read about 45 Alan Watts books and, with a couple of exceptions, found them all to be well worth the time.

If you are interested specifically in Zen, then I could recommend any and all of the following six titles by Watts:

The Way of Zen
The Spirit of Zen
Talking Zen
Zen and the Beat Way
Zen, The Supreme Experience
Eastern Wisdom - Three Classics: What is Zen? What is Tao? An Introduction to Meditation


But, his books on Taoism and Hindu concepts are also, uh, enlightening.

[weepingforloman]

Mmm....I think you're approaching this from the right direction, but alas, the devil's in the details. One of the big doctrines of Buddhism is the 'Doctrine of No-Soul' or (obviously) that no soul exists. Perhaps being part of the same (a universal) consciousness would be better terminology. Or....damn. My mind is currently going blank on the correct way to word this, so hopefully someone else can take up the torch. Or I'll come up with the words I was looking for a later time, perhaps.

I know of the existence of fringe-Buddhist sects that worship Siddartha Gautama as a god, and I am relatively sure they speak of souls. However, I understand that the Universal Consciousness might be a better term, but I am more comfortable with the word soul.

[Dark Star]

However, the word 'soul' goes directly against the core Buddhist teaching that there is no such thing as a soul. This is why Buddhism has a system of rebirth rather than reincarnation. This is why I feel we need different terminology to express that idea.

[weepingforloman]

Very well.

[NikolaiI]

I have read about 45 Alan Watts books and, with a couple of exceptions, found them all to be well worth the time.

If you are interested specifically in Zen, then I could recommend any and all of the following six titles by Watts:

The Way of Zen
The Spirit of Zen
Talking Zen
Zen and the Beat Way
Zen, The Supreme Experience
Eastern Wisdom - Three Classics: What is Zen? What is Tao? An Introduction to Meditation


But, his books on Taoism and Hindu concepts are also, uh, enlightening.

Thank you very much...

[NikolaiI]

I know of the existence of fringe-Buddhist sects that worship Siddartha Gautama as a god, and I am relatively sure they speak of souls. However, I understand that the Universal Consciousness might be a better term, but I am more comfortable with the word soul.

However, the word 'soul' goes directly against the core Buddhist teaching that there is no such thing as a soul. This is why Buddhism has a system of rebirth rather than reincarnation. This is why I feel we need different terminology to express that idea.

That's true, the name of the Buddha is considered very sacred. I think I read somewhere someone saying if you use it in a bad or insincere way you should wash your mouth out for three days or something like that. As for what the Buddha said about it, I remember one quote where he minimalizes different things like mountains and kings and other things. Like he says the greatest ruler is dust at his feet or something like that. Kind of cute. And I'm fairly sure that Dark Star is dead on about everything else.