As to Bible prophecy, there's too much for me to type it all, so I'll have to provide some links on the subject:Originally Posted by Gorilla King
PRECISELY WHAT IS A SUCCESSFULLY-FULFILLED, SUPERNATURALLY-INSPIRED PROPHECY?
Prophecies Claimed as Fulfilled
"Ideas have consequences, and totally erroneous ideas are likely to have destructive consequences."
Steve Allen
I'm talking about 'what people do' because I do not live in some 'alternate world', or in the midst of some 'cosmological' battle between 'good' and 'evil', nor do I have any plans of being 'eternal'. Sounds too damn long anyways. I happen to live on Earth with over 6.5 billion other people. The only thing I have is personal relationships with others and the land. My life is very happy, although I wish the world was free from war, suffering disease, and discrimination. I hate war. I want to have a positive relationship with everyone I met; I want to see man's great idea's and creations and stare aimlessly at flowers. The 'bad' in Christianity is that anyone who disagrees with me is a 'sinner', must be labeled as 'wrong', and I must do everything i can to 'save their souls', so I would never bother to call myself a 'Christian'. The only heaven I belief of is on Earth.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what sin is. Everyone is a sinner...even Christians. The wars you hate are the products of sin. I won't try to convince you of the reality of it, I'm just telling you the Christian view of it. I'd be happy to elaborate further if you're interested, bu if not then I'm just as content to leave it be.
I have no desire to write a book here in response to to this, but I could certainly point you in the direction of some that would refute everything there if you're interested. You could probably find them very reasonably priced on amazon too. Let me know.
This may help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7iQRFP_e90
There's no such thing as Christianity.
There's no such thing as atheism. To claim there's no God you have to either have to possess all possible knowledge or claim to be god. Since you don't have the first and certainly aren't the latter, I find your claim lacking.
One does have to wonder though, what is it about Christianity specifically which repulses you like it does? Some would say that we resist the most what we know to be true. After all, if you hold it in such low regard, why would you waste your time with it?
Last edited by Gorilla King; 06-24-2007 at 09:02 AM.
Just so you know, the quote for my signature isn't supposed to be about that statement.
Ha, no, atheism doesn't exist. Neither does America, England, or France. And I am not repulsed by any of those things.
Anyway, you missed my point, and I hope you're not too embarrased, Gorilla King. There was clearly no attack on God, or Christians in that statement. I wasn't trying to make fun.
“God is merely the answer that you get if you do not ask enough questions.” “Why do they hate Him?” by Anthony Gottlieb, The New Yorker, May 21, 2007, paraphrasing David Hume.
What a bunch of rubbish.
Which is what I usually get when I ask those who believe in the existence of God to provide for the basis of their beliefs.
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong... I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell. It doesn't frighten me." Feynman, Richard, quoted in Gleick, Genius: The life & Science of Richard Feynman, p. 438
“God is merely the answer that you get if you do not ask enough questions.”
Well get specific! If I ask you to teach me about biology, is it much use if I dismiss you because you can't condense thousands of pages of reading into a handful of paragraphs?
If you were to ask me about the basis for my belief in the findings of biology I would tell you that those findings have been tested.
You get defensive when asked about the basis of your beliefs, as if 'God' were incompetent to defend himself against attack and it was up to you to do so. The existence of God is not within my competence either to affirm or disprove; it is the authority and the touchiness of those who profess to 'know' Him that I am curious about.
It's true though, that when you're on one side you really do believe it's true. As Donnie Darko said from the movie Donnie Darko, "I want to believe I'm not alone, but I don't know. I've just never seen any proof, you know? I don't debate it anymore. I used to, but I don't anymore. You could debate it all your life and not be anywhere further. It's absurd! So I just don't debate it anymore."
I agree with Feynman. Living and not knowing, or living and being alone is nothing terrible. I don't fear death, etc., either. Some theologians think it's inherent that all people are terrified by death, etc., like Camus, and it just doesn't make sense.
And about God and not knowing, the only reason we consider it at all, and are debating it, is because of the precise way we were raised. We were raised, taught the issue, etc., talked with people about it ever since our childhood and schooldays. If, for example, you never knew anything about it, you wouldn't think anything about it. Consider a child raised in a small community, seperate from the modern world. She was taught nothing about religion or God, she just lived with nature, knew plants and animals and the seasons in all their freshness and beauty, the warmth of the sun in the summer, the grass on her bare feet and the streams, and winter in all its vigor and freshness, and lived with her family and community and people who loved her, but she never knew God - then she would think of the world as a safe place, she would be happy and think of the world as a good place, and and she wouldn't be sad because she was alone in the universe or unhappy because she didn't know...theology.
The Christian mythic narrative, as so-and-so calls it, has many adherents. Some of them were, really did fit the negative stereotype some atheists have of Christians. I mean the ones who were the opposite of what the ideal was - what Christ was - the ones you just want see- you say you follow Christ!?? The type of person Nietzsche thought a Christian was. But obviously the way it should be is a good religion, one that preaches compassion and enlightenment, etc., i.e., if one follows Jesus. I think one problem is that people take the bible too literally. It's a mythic narrative. There are lots of others. It doesn't have a monopoly on truth, rationality, logic, and everything good, goodness. It isn't the one and only truth. Going through Buddha is the same as going through Christ. Proof: the actions are the same, and the thoughts are the same.
That's my opinion. Hope that helps, stella. I find it strange when people take strange things for granted; things that are strange to me. Like, we should all be depressed, or things should be this way or that, pretty much almost anything. Like, if someone bases everything on the bible. Then you're in an argument with them, and they use a verse from the bible as evidence, or proof. It's not evidence, it's only the point you made. And you're giving me another source for it. That doesn't convince me. Or when people argue about who's right. It's very strange. I don't have anything to prove to anyone. But, I understand you when you say it's hard to grasp how someone could, not believe anything, because we all feel that way about people who believe different things.
Last edited by NikolaiI; 06-24-2007 at 12:59 PM. Reason: changed 'whatever' to 'theology'
Nikolai, what a wonderful, temperate post your last is! Thank you. I once made up this mantra for myself:
"Nothing to prove - everything to discover."
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