Mercedes

[ElissaDido]

If Mercedes had waited for Edmond until he finally escaped, would he have pursued his vengeance still? Would he have changed?

And another thing. Did Edmond's love for Mercedes die after he discovered she married Fernand? Was there nothing left of his love except respect? If so, was that why they could never be together again? I think Edmond was Mercedes greatest love of her life. Is it the same for Edmond?

I just felt kinda sorry for Mercedes after suffering for so long. I mean, yeah, it was partly her fault since she didn't take an active hold of her life and wait for Edmond. But she was alone. And well, she wasn't entirely to blame.

[nps_marina]

What I think (and I read the Count a way back), is that Dumas was a mysoginist. That's not saying much- it's also pretty obvious if you read the Three Musketeers, where all the female characters are the devil.
In the case of Mercedes, you might not entirely blame her for being bad, but certainly there's that Dumas point of view where the women are merely decorative, and Mercedes takes that role fairly well, just 'doing as told' and marrying Ferdinand where there is no Edmond anymore. And then being Ferdinand's pretty throphy, period.
Even if she still loved Edmond, she was a woman- women are stupid! (I am speaking Dumasian, here, don't get me wrong!!!!). She had no guidance to tell her 'this is wrong, even if you die a poor spinster, you'll die knowing that you were morally superior'.

I certainly think that if Mercedes had waited for Edmond, he wouldn't have pursued his revenge because, even if he did have many rgertes, I believe that the main regret that triggered him was that Mercedes didn't wait for him. They would have been together and he would have probably even forgiven his enemies, in this morally superior way Dumas was so crazy about.

And yes, I do believe that Edmond and Mercedes were each other's true loves.

[closedbyrequest]

But Edmond did not know that Mercedes had married Fernand until after he escaped. Perhaps his revenge would not have been as elaborate, but I think Fernand, Villefort, Danglars, and Cadderouse would have paid.

I think his affection did die when he found out she was married, but was rekindled a little when she came to save the Vicomte. Until that point, I don't think he even respected her. I don't think that Mercedes was Edmond's only love because at some point he refered to Haidee as another Mercedes, meaning another love.

I think that Mercedes was a weak person and needed to be with someone. It was Edmond, then Edmond's father, then Fernand, then her son. Then once her son joined the military she started to show her age. She lost her mind in a way.

[ElissaDido]

I see. And well, I did notice that in The Three Musketeers there were two types of women featured: the weak and angelic type (and I think in a way, the ideal woman during those times) - Constance; and the strong and villainous type - Milady (I've read in the introduction in the book I've got that women in power were looked up in suspicion).

In the Count, there's the first type again (the angelic ones... more like the passive and weak ones) in the forms of Valentine and Mercedes. I mean, Valentine was weak too; she was afraid to fight for her wishes and would have submitted if she wasn't so scared of Max killing himself. And Valentine is, more or less, represented as the ideal woman in the novel, in my opinion.

So, Valentine and Mercedes are similar in some ways and I am inclined to think that if Valentine was put in Mercedes' position she would be doing the same thing, if it seemed like she lost everything.

Mercedes was alone and she had nothing. She was naturally scared of being alone for long so she decided to get married to Fernand. Yes, that was wrong but she paid dearly for it. I guess that's how women are in Dumas' world. They need their men (well, of course, except Eugenie...). Haydee was even prepared to die if the Count left her.

Another set of questions: so the Count loves Haydee just as how much he had loved Mercedes? Or he loved Haydee more?

[nps_marina]

Well well well...
I must say that I read The Count a while back, and there are many details that I don't really remember anymore.. But I have to agree with what you say, Lord of the Vie, concerning Mercedes being a weak woman always in need of a protective man. I guess I agree because it's the same thing that I said, only you say it better, because you attach the characters to the argument.

Now for your new questions Elissa- I think that the Count loves Haydee in a different manner. I don't know- perhaps he loves her, but it's more of a love in the 'I love you because you love me' sense. If I were Haydee, I wouldn't settle for that, you know what I mean? When Edmond loved Mercedes, I have this feeling he loved her as an equal, as someone he wanted to share all his thoughts and adventures with. In the case of Haydee, it looks as if he loves her because she's pretty, and she's been there all that time, anyway... not really loving her, but liking her and kind of not caring much either way.

It might happen in real life, but I don't care about this situation in books where,as everyone does and regarding the love subject, I like the grand finales- especially in this book, where the plot has nothing to do with real life anyway.

But I have said elsewhere already that the book's end left me a little cold. I wanted cold blooded vengeance everywhere, even with Mercedes... and at the end, the man turns into a sissy. Blah.

[JBI]

First of all, the original outline of the story was written by a ghost writer, therefore it is unfair to directly target Dumas. Second of all, I would say his for her never dies, but his longing for revenge stops him from reconciliation with her. Of course, Haidiee comes along, and he falls for her (though he is reluctant because of the gap in their ages).

I don't think it is fair to call Dumas misogynistic by looking at this novel alone.
However, if you are basing the judgment on The Three Musketeers, I would add that though it may seem that Dumas' portrayal of women is demeaning, it was somewhat true for the time (married women did go around sleeping with young men).

If Mercedes would have waited, I would think that he would have gone straight to her, though I still think he would have gone after the people who did him in.

[closedbyrequest]

Heh. I just remembered that my username is one character too long. So it should be "Lord of the View". Blah. Just call me Chris.

Anyway, Edmond didn't even think of Haidee in any sense other than child until he realized her love for him. I agree with Marina entirely on this point.

It's so nice to be able to talk to other people that love this book and analize it. I feel weird because I read this book every six months.

[ElissaDido]

Okay, I see. I feel comforted somewhat. lol

I didn't actually care much about what happened to Mercedes when I read the abridged version (by mistake). But in reading the unabridged one, I started to feel bad for her.

I'm enlightened on these points. Thanks guys.

It's so nice to be able to talk to other people that love this book and analize it. I feel weird because I read this book every six months.

btw, how many times have you read it then?

[closedbyrequest]

Ummm... 6 or 7, at least. I read it online a few times. Then my ex got me a 1938 copy so I had to read that but I noticed that it was missing some chapters so I had to read it online again. To make sure, you know. Then I bought a version from Barnes and Noble. I read that a few times. I just bought a 1902 collection of Dumas stuff so I have to read that version soon.

I'm pathetic, I know.

[nps_marina]

wo-ow
I just droppes The Three Musketeers- pretty near the end, so to speak: they were thinking up what to do concerning MiLady's going to Englad to kill Duke Buckingham.
I just... didn't care. Kept dropping the book midsentence to look out the window (I usually read in the train).
Dumas and I have a weird like-hate relationship. I think the thing with the Count was that I loved Edmond's character. In the musketeers, I love Athos, but I hate d'Artagnan, and the story is always from his pov...

[ElissaDido]

@lord: O.O Whoa... I don't think I've ever read a novel more than 3 times. And you're not pathetic, at least in opinion.

@marina: I agree with the d'Artagnan thing. Well, I see d'Artagnan as:
>quick-tempered (he challenged that guy he met at the beginning of the book because he thinks he insulted him... whatever. Then, he challenged the Duke when he thought that he was Constance's guy)
>possessive (he thinks he owns the ladies and becomes jealous when it seems like he's not the only one in their mind)
>inconstant to Constance (c'mon if he sees a pretty lady and gets enamoured with her he forgets he's supposed to be in love with Constance)

I liked Athos the best out of the Musketeers too. He's like the most noble of them all (no surprise there since he is a lord). Comparing Musketeers with Count, the main characters differ much. I see Edmond as:
>personable (he tries to think well of people even those who dislike him)
>constant (he even insists that there is difference between a mistress and a fiancee and Mercedes is his fiancee)

Though maybe d'Artagnan improved in the next novels but I wouldn't know. I haven't read.

[closedbyrequest]

Elissa, I have started a new thread in the Three Musketeers section using a quote from your post. I just don't want the MODs to get mad at our going off topic.

[kiki1982]

Don't forget that Mercédès was an orphan, and poor into the bargain... As a consequence no man would ever marry her as she couldn't afford either a trousseau or a dowry. Edmond and Fernand, I think, were her only chances to get actually a decent life. She could have married a Caderousse, but that wasn't much better than staying alone. If she wouldn't have married Fernand, after Edmond was 'dead', she would have died either of old age at 30, disease or hunger. Marrying Fernand was the only chance to actually stay alive... He was a soldier, so a pretty sure wage and if he died she would get a widow pension.
I would say, blame the system and not the writer, or the ghost writer, for this.
I also felt bad about this , because I was expecting a firy passion, but I got nothing... But everything was alright in the end...

[closedbyrequest]

Very good point.