The pope didn't rid of purgatory for nothing...it was no longer needed. and yes man did create hell...heaven as well.
The pope didn't rid of purgatory for nothing...it was no longer needed. and yes man did create hell...heaven as well.
If he did, then why wasn't he more descriptive in his creation? Dante did a far better job than the Bible did. If humanity created heaven, hell and the Bible, why didn't humanity give us a really appealing description of heaven and a really detailed, scary picture of Hell?Originally Posted by hyperborean
The pope's dismissal of purgatory was to correct medieval Catholic doctrine that created it in the first place. Purgatory isn't Hell proper anyway.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
Then again the guy that helped us get out of the dark ages (dante) was smarter than the average man. His detailed description of hell wasn't there to scare people...it was to get people to reevaluate themselves. You can't compare the writers of the bible to the writer of a renaissance piece.
My point (which you bypassed addressing) is that the Biblical description of hell - if written by humans - is woefully inadequate to "scare" anybody. Dante's version is far more effective in scaring people than the Bible is.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
We can only go by what the scripture says. And the scriptures makes it abundantly clear - Hell is quite erm - Hellish!!!...in Quranic description of Hell for example - unbelievers are boiled and roasted alive...and then their burnt skins are changed for fresh skin so that they can experience the pain to it's full again and again and again for all eternity.
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell:
And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"
Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales
I'm not Muslim...
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.--Romans 1:7
Please check this out:
http://vocm.org
As to the suicide issue brought up by stephofthenight: I do not find it said anywhere in my Bible that it is an unpardonable sin. Most who commit suicide are not in control of themselves at the time anyway. For the record, I had two attempts myself before I was 19. Judging the person is not up to us.
Homosexuality is unnatural. Two males or two females cannot produce offspring. If this occurred in nature, a vast change in biology would be necessary or the species would quickly become extinct. The Bible calls it “immoral”. That’s between the person and God, not me, the person, and God. I am not the Judge. Let each person work it out on their own. I know gay people and have gay friends. They are aware that I don’t approve. I never mention it. We get on fine.
The best sermon you will ever prech is how you treat others and how you react under pressure. God Bless.
Some of us laugh
Some of us cry
Some of us smoke
Some of us lie
But it's all just the way
that we cope with our lives...
I see that you love to pick apart other's statements, and any value that they may have is then made incoherent. You must be a lawyer; this sounds exactly like a lawyer’s way of cross-examination. It is impossible to make someone see who refuses to open their eyes; or change someone's mind when it is already programmed to reject anything except what is already there. So mon ami, long may you live and prosper. If I should turn out to be right at the end of it all, my hands are clean, I have tried to help people. If I am wrong, then I am wrong—but I will not go into the darkness worrying about a wasted life. This is what I do. God bless.
Some of us laugh
Some of us cry
Some of us smoke
Some of us lie
But it's all just the way
that we cope with our lives...
Im sure that suicide was only demonised by Dante's inferno,
Which was, we must remember, rejected by the church immediately after publication
His metaphorical representation of Hell has however become entangled with heathen and traditional views of hell, and historically accepted as Christian ideas
Last edited by NSAM; 05-13-2007 at 10:20 AM.
Pendragon: "Homosexuality is unnatural. Two males or two females cannot produce offspring. If this occurred in nature, a vast change in biology would be necessary or the species would quickly become extinct. "
If homosexuality suddenly became universal then the species would become extinct. However, overpopulation can also be an issue, and nature provides various mechanisms for reducing birthrates.
Homosexuality may therefore be just such a natural mechanism.
The Bible may or may not call it immoral - in the times when the bible was written, underpopulation was perhaps more of a problem. In the current times, widespread homosexuality would perhaps be the most moral and natural solution to the overpopulation of the world by humans.
Voices mysterious far and near,
Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
Are calling and whispering in my ear,
Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?
Homosexuality exists because of society. I think I've said this before on this forum...there is no genetic link to homosexuality. The connection has been debunked.
Hey? I only have given you a description of hell from scripture from one of the Abrahamic Religions.
No. I am not lawyer. I am just ordinary joe bloggs who asks the must difficult as well as the most easiest of question.
My mind is quite open but it is not naieve. It asks the most difficult and also the obivious of question. It is through questioning that we make progress in both the intellectual and the spiritual.It is impossible to make someone see who refuses to open their eyes; or change someone's mind when it is already programmed to reject anything except what is already there.
Go in peace.So mon ami, long may you live and prosper.
Shalom, Shantih, Salam and Peace.
Don't worry about a thing in that regard. If your hands are clean then thats good for you.If I should turn out to be right at the end of it all, my hands are clean, I have tried to help people.
Well I try to do is to make people Think For Themselves and not rely on others to their thinking for them. It is when we Think For Ourselves that we set ourselves Free...
A life lived with compassion and love for others is never a wasted life.If I am wrong, then I am wrong—but I will not go into the darkness worrying about a wasted life. This is what I do. God bless.
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell:
And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"
Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales
I believe I may owe you an apology. If that was your intent, just to picture hell from some's rather unrealistic view of hell, then I apologize for what I said about you picking it apart.
I only ask people this: The Bible states that Eternal life is the gift of God to the believer. To burn in hell for eternity would require eternal life, which the unbeliever is not promised. No where does it use the word "eternal" it says "forever and ever" or "until ages of ages". This is an unknown time span. It will end, for death and hell are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. Total destuction of body and soul, as Jesus told people: "fear not man who can but destroy this body, fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
If I cared nothing for people, I would say "Hey. I'm safe. Go to hell if you want. What do I care?" But I love and care for people and warn them. God Bless, and I apologize again, mon ami.
Some of us laugh
Some of us cry
Some of us smoke
Some of us lie
But it's all just the way
that we cope with our lives...
There are other "natural mechanisms" (disease, famine, natural disaster) that accomplish de-populization just fine.
There is no "may" - the Bible is unequivocal in its condemnation of homosexual behavior. Calling it "moral" because it might address a social ill (overpopulation) means that morality is a social expedient and has no transcendant meaning - which means it has - ultimately - no authority except that which we give it.
"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." - C.S. Lewis
There is no need for an apology Pen. But thanks anyway :-)
If you can live with love and compassion for those that you have around it you then that is good enough. And if you can encourage others to cultivate love and compassion for others too then that's truly good too - there is no need to warn them of anything...
Go in peace :-)
Shalom, Salam, Shantih and Peace
Regards,
Lote
I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell:
And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell :"
Blog: Rubaiyats of Lote-Tree and Poetry and Tales
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