Controversial poet-colin leslie dean

[pam69ur]

Hello I found this poet on the net.

his approach to poetry is

In this day and age a sense of poetry is lacking
The world is anathematised. The pleasure principle has
dulled peoples souls. They don't feel, they are not moved
by any aesthetic feeling . There is no passion. The one area
of most peoples lives, sex, lacks intensity lacks fire in other
words lacks poetry. Life is a mechanical routine of ritualised
habits and endless going over of old patterns- no spark no intensity
These evil flowers are meant to evoke feeling. If the feeling is that
of revulsion or that of elation, of abhorrence or that of glee then
these evil flowers have achieved thier result they have made you alive
feel in other words they have made you human again.

There seems to be varied and mixed views regarding his poetry. His poetry is full of vivid images and starling language which take us to areas which may be regarded as taboo . His language is very melodious and hypnotic I was wondering what the views of a poetry forum might be in regard to his poetry-as I have found quite mixed views

you can download his poetry free from this site
gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/gamahucher_press_catalogue.htm

[cuppajoe_9]

Just...bad. Sorry. Just really really bad. The nicest thing I can find to say about it is that it reminds me of Allen Ginsberg, only in a parallel universe where Allen Ginsberg is right-wing and a bad poet.

[pam69ur]

dean is nothing like Allen Ginsberg by equating him with him says to me you have not even read any of deans work at all. Dean is as far from Ginsberg as your parallel universe. If you have read dean lets see some quote and a comment on it -if not your comments are just uniformed rhetoric from some one who has not read who he is critising

[cuppajoe_9]

Trust me, dude, I read it. I wish I hadn't, but I read the first poem it gave. It read like angsty beat poetry, only with a different structure. And bad. It was completely unpoetic and unoriginal, it was about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the forehead (only without the sledgehammer's emotional impact), and it had exactly the same erotic qualities as a train wreck. As to the content: it was so far-right and misogynist that the best analogy I can think of is some hideous combination of Hemmingway and Pound, only with a complete lack of any literary worth. Dean shows a hillariously bad understanding of both the basic precepts of feminism and the actual content of The Female Eunuch not to mention some fairly twisted ideas of female sexuality. It's an obvious attempt to create controversy as a means of getting attention, rather than actually writing good verse.

This guy is the Ed Wood of poetry, only without Wood's sense of fun. That poem is to poetry as falling down the stairs and breaking your collar-bone is to ballet.

In conclusion: I didn't like it.

[pam69ur]

so lets see a quote from the poem -which one excatly and show how it is beat poetry-dean is as far from beat poetry as you paralle universe
and please if it is unoriginal show us in a quote the other work that is like deans

[cuppajoe_9]

"I got it all/I am a hard nosed feminist/I pranced and preened/The toast of the the town/Flounced around the girl about the town" (I would continue, but it would result in my being IP banned.)

Compare to:

"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked/.../angleheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,..."
(Allen Ginsberg, Howl)

Note the similar themes of an insane society, a society in crisis, alienation, despair and a slightly hysterical verse. The differences being Ginsberg's verse flows and is original, poetic and clever (the word 'connection' being used in the double sense of "cosmic understanding" and "drug dealer"). Dean's God-awful poetry, on the other hand, reads jerkily, makes no statement more sophisticated than "I don't like feminism", and is completely devoid of allusion, metaphor, double-meaning, artful prosody or any of those other reasons why people enjoy poetry.

[pam69ur]

quote
I got it all/I am a hard nosed feminist/I pranced and preened/The toast of the the town/Flounced around the girl about the town" (I would continue, but it would result in my being IP banned.)

Compare to:

"I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked/.../angleheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,..."
(Allen Ginsberg, Howl)

that aint no comparision deans is not about madness or of an insane society, a society in crisis, alienation, despair and a slightly hysterical verse.you could you miss the point of the whole poem with that comparision his is about arogance conciet pride and vanityYOU MISS THE complete point of dean with that inappripriate quote
all your post point to the fact you dont like deans content so you are now going to rubbish it that is the issue not whether it is good or bad poetry

and your selection of that type of verse in the poem is so telling cos further along there is great verse of pathos and lost love in a completly different poetic style you not quoting that type of poetrty shows you are just againist the content
the verse you quoted is juxtaposed with a more melodic pathos poetry to bring out in sharop contrast the different moods of the feminist-you not showing this shjows your bias against the content

[cuppajoe_9]

all your post point to the fact you dont like deans content so you are now going to rubbish it that is the issue not whether it is good or bad poetry

I don't like it because it's awful.

and your selection of that type of verse in the poem is so telling cos further along there is great verse of pathos and lost love in a completly different poetic style

Quote it, then. I've seen better pathos on license plates.

[pam69ur]

hey u say u read the poem all the way through so show us with a quote these lines of pathos and lost love in a diiferent style

[cuppajoe_9]

I don't want to, because then I'd have to read it again. You show us that.

[pam69ur]

you prove you read it all the way through you are the one rubbishing dean-even with a incorrect comparision with ginsberg

[cuppajoe_9]

Dude, if you like it, that's fine. I think it's awful. I did read it, but I'm not particularly interested in working too hard to prove it to tyranical strangers over the internet. Good day.

[Petrarch's Love]

pam69ur--Just so you know that it's not an isolated opinion, I have read the entire "Female Eunuch" poem down to the very last line and I have to agree with cuppajoe that it's badly written. It just reads like a rather inept and very misogynistic rant without redeeming artistic value. I want to make absolutely clear, that while I'm not a fan of the poem's theme, I am not calling it bad poetry based upon that theme but based on the fact that the use of language is singularly uninspired. There are plenty of writers who have written misogynistic verse and used naughty language but done so with considerably more wit and art. I don't even find it that shocking or controversial. There's been a lot of amateur bawdy poetry written throughout history, and I really just can't see what makes this stand apart.

I think it is up to you to quote that part of the poem that you find artful and full of pathos and explain what you like about it, since you're the one seeing these qualities. I'm sure people would be willing to politely read your explanation of what moves you about this poetry and to take your point of view into account, but it's not at all fair to ask someone to quote lines to prove your point when that person doesn't agree with your point and thus can't possibly know what part you are alluding to.

[pam69ur]

you say without without redeeming artistic value and badly written
so lets see yoour aesthetic first hand lets see the criteria you are basing this assessment on
give us a few line from the complet styles showing us how they lack artistic value-u made the claim so back it up

is yoiur aesthetic classical moderniist post-modernist
can you appreciate dadist or futurist poetry do you think poetry ended with petrarach or shakspeare do you think based upon clasical principles the romantic or modersist poets are amerturish because their diction is simple and prose like can u appreacite the colloquial poetry of kipling or is he amerturish
lets se you easthetic principle you are judging dean upon

[cuppajoe_9]

I think I see how this little game works:

"Dude, that poem sucked."
"Back it up. Let's see you quote the poem and show us what you find so offensive about it."
[does so]
"Ah, it's very telling that you quoted that line, because the very next segment of the poem contains the most beautiful description of love lost yet wrote down in any language."
"Uhh..."
"You must be biased against the content of Dean's work. I bet you haven't even read the poem."
"Uhh..."
"Man, forget you guys with your bourgoise, narrow-minded, classicist, facist literary criticisms. You just don't like good poetry!"
"Uhh..."

There are plenty of writers who have written misogynistic verse and used naughty language but done so with considerably more wit and art.

John Wilmot, anybody?