Atheists....

[Matrim Cuathon]

you are an athiest, so you don't belive in God, yet you claim that we should love each other because God commands it. Isn't that a little contradictory? I mean, I don't totally believe that quote either. Some people do do that, but you can't catagorize all atheists that way, just as you cant catagorize all Christians as "extremist who shove the Bible down their throats" But you can't claim something that was given by something that you don't believe exists.

he said he wasnt an atheist.

[Dante Wodehouse]

So, you don't want to speculate what it was doing for infinity. Fair enough, I understand you dilemma--kind of a sticky-wicket.

I'm not certain I understand what you mean by "the purely scientific big-bang theory believes everything has an order". By 'having an order' what do you mean exactly and specifically?

"Of course a practicer of a religion is going to think that that religion is right while others are wrong."

And this is not closed-minded?

I do speculate, but I cannot be sure. Having an order means that it should be explainable, but infinity is not explainable, not by science. It is closed minded, but why would you entrust your immortal soul to a cause that you didn't consider correct.

[Dante Wodehouse]

If you really mean that seriously I...I am at a loss for words.

This is why some people are atheists. They question their beliefs for a while and extremists end up shoving the Bible down their throats and telling them that they will go to Hell if they do not believe in God.

Now, I'm not an atheist. I am a practicing LDS member, but I do have respect enough for those who believe differently. It doesn't mean that Christians, Muslims, or whatever you are should shun them simply because they don't believe in a higher being. God told us to love everyone. And it should end right there.

You don't seem to be at a loss for words.
There are extremists out there, but there are also people who love (and this may not be such a crazy idea) by trying to save other people. Many times people who are just trying to make an atheist see the light are docketed as intolerant radicals. Respect is good, but to love you should have an interest (not neccessarily a pushy one) in helping their immortal soul. In my not-quite so humble opinion, trying to get a fellow human in to heaven demonstrates more love than playing 18 holes of golf with them every other Sunday.

[Matrim Cuathon]

well, you nubs can go love someone else then

[Bookworm4Him]

he said he wasnt an atheist.

sorry old chap. I was quickly skimming thru. I'm not quite sure what an LDS thingy is.

[Logos]

I'm not quite sure what an LDS thingy is.

Latter Day Saints are people, not 'thingys'

[Bookworm4Him]

well, you nubs can go love someone else then

True love is helping your "enemies" (i don't consider you my "enemy" as much as just not agreeing) as well as your friend. Anyone, including barbarians in who-knows-where, will help their friends; only those who really care will help those they don't know. If y'all have relatives, esp. close family, who are Christians, do you think that they will stop loving you if you don't convert? Not on your life! You don't have to agree to love.

[Bookworm4Him]

Latter Day Saints are people, not 'thingys'

sorry!

[Weisinheimer]

"Of course a practicer of a religion is going to think that that religion is right while others are wrong."

And this is not closed-minded?

No, it's not closed-minded to be sure about something. I believe there is a God. I, therefore, believe that people who don't believe there is a God are wrong. I do however recognize that there are logical arguments for atheism. They just aren't as convincing to me as the ones for theism.

[watkinsguy]

Pluralism in today's society is so illogical....You can not have everyone be right and no one wrong.....i agree Weisninheimer

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Yo! Yo! Yo! Homies!!! What's up? Word!

[RobinHood3000]

No, it's not closed-minded to be sure about something. I believe there is a God. I, therefore, believe that people who don't believe there is a God are wrong. I do however recognize that there are logical arguments for atheism. They just aren't as convincing to me as the ones for theism.

In what way?

[SFG75]

Red asked if it is possible that Christians are like this too.

They are like that to a degree. There are those who do acknowledge evolution and who wouldn't believe that we should take the Old Testament too literally, as stoning children and reverting back to a primtive, barbarian Taliban-esque society is untenable. There are those who are in denial. I coun't those who believe the earth is only 14,000 years old or who fail to believe that there are new species that emerge, which ultimately, validates evolution. I know more of more than a few Ph.D. holders who sudenly develop amnesia, or at least, stay away from the biology department. The least critical thinking are those who are like Fred Phelps. People who take selected portions of the Old Testament, only to ignore the more absurd parts of it; people who equate a free-thinking deist Jefferson as a litaerlist; people like Jerry Falwell and Oral Roberts, who talk about morality, but who ignore social justice and the economy to the detriment of working people. These are the folks who exhibit the least amount of critical thinking in my honest, biased, flawed opinion.

I realize that you only mean that quote for certain of the sect, and I will not catagorize all atheists by the multitude of bad ones, but I ask that you do not catagorize all the Christians by the majority of those who call themselves Christians.

Oh I more than agree. Martin Heidegger was a known Nazi sympathizer. How someone with his background could have fallen under the sway of national-socialism merely accounts ofr the fact that humans...are well....human.

"They try to dedicate their life to something beyond the self." Isn't that our whole purpose? To try to reach out and y'all the truth before you die and go to hell?

LOL-I have investigated the claims of Christianity, and I have found them to be false. For one, Christianity is terribly unoriginal. Large parts of Christianity are products of Pagan stories of the past. From a "flesh and blood savior" to the resurrection, though they called him Osiris-Dionysus. On top of that, every major Christian holiday has a pagan predecessor. Second, Christianity claims nothing that makes it more discernablly correct than any other system of belief. Testimony?, absolutely worthless as there are plenty of Hindus, Buddhists, and Hindus who can tell you that their convictions are of equal value. The holy scriptures? The process of what is added or subtracted was nothing more than political scheming and the stories written were by the victorious tribes. Ethnic cleansing and all sorts of backwards behavior such as stoning children, clearly show this pattern IMHO. Look at our own politicas, for years, the "curse of Ham" theory was used to justify slavery and segregation. How laughable is it that a man seeing his drunken father is cursed, but the daughters who get their father drunk and sleep with him isn't? Now you could argue that those instances are different, however, that would be to admit the *relative* nature of things, and we now how *relativism* is the boogie-man for every known(or pretended) problem that there is. Third, the religion that one takes up is mostly predicated upon geography. If you grow up in Thailand, you will probably be a Buddhist. If you grew up in India, perhaps a Hindu or a Sikh. If you are an American, well, your sect depends upon your own family background. Yes, I suppose one could look at the "evidence" and dismiss other religions or sects, but that can be a rather creative task in reasoning as well.

No, atheists aren't perfect and they(I) are more than flawed. I hold on to some ntoions myself related to politics and philosophy that I know perhaps aren't exactly so "true." However, I acknowledge that(or seek to) and in doing so, hope to continue learning what I can. I can't say the same goes for a theistic person. Contrary evidence can be rationalized away or simply ignored.

Sorry the rant/rambling. I should have less coffee.

I hope I did not offend with my post, it wasn't my intention. This is a fine board and I'm very impressed with the content posted thus far by everyone.

[Weisinheimer]

In what way?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, Robin. some clarification, please.

[Wintermute]

I do speculate, but I cannot be sure. Having an order means that it should be explainable, but infinity is not explainable, not by science. It is closed minded, but why would you entrust your immortal soul to a cause that you didn't consider correct.

Ok, let's do away with infinity. Lets pose the question as:

What do you think God was doing 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,000 years ago?

I think we all agree that this is only a drop in the bucket compared to infinity.

And as for an 'immortal soul', I'm far from convinced that such a thing even exists, let alone what I would trust it to if it did.