Atheists....

[Stanislaw]

I find it interesting, a little sad, and in some instances scary. But not funny.

The folks that are slamming creationists can not really come up with an alternate theory of what started it all.

And the science bashers have almost certainly never had the opportunity to investigate what science really is all about. My sister is a professor of neurobiology and I take great offence at the notion that she is somehow a liberal na'er-do-well who's primary goal is to debunk someone's religion. She goes into the lab before dawn, and usually doesn't return home until after 9pm. She works very hard to understand the human brain an how in functions in order to better our lot--for very little monetary compensation. You folks that summarily dismiss scientists as mean-spirited, close minded, ignorant, whatevers...need to examine a mirror. No scientist that I know of has ever claimed to know with certainty what is going on in the universe. They theorize, examine, then re-theorize.

well, the same could be said of the relgion bashers...they've never checked it out... some of us are scientists, some of us believe that an open mind is best. I don't have all of the answers, neither do you, I'm just saying, keep an open mind.

[watkinsguy]

well, the same could be said of the relgion bashers...they've never checked it out... some of us are scientists, some of us believe that an open mind is best. I don't have all of the answers, neither do you, I'm just saying, keep an open mind.

well, to quote some random black guy, true dat. lol anway To restate the gist of what Redzepplin has been saying, whether you like it or not, there are many Christians who know why they believe what they do and can easily defend it. To say that scientists have proof without certainty and Christians without proof shows that whomever quoted that phrase has never studied Christianity outside of TBN. In order to have a rational discussion we must all be on the same page, scientists that know about Christianity, and CHristians that know about science. I think this thread would be infinitly more interesting if we could do that...

[Wintermute]

But when people make it their god, and try to prove that life came from atoms that were never there, that wammed into each other, and made a perfect world full of monkeys that over a gagillion of years turned into people...maybe some are a little close-minded.

So, you are saying that science should just throw up their hands and stop trying to understand what is going on in the universe? Just accept without question that one partiuclar religion is right?? I'm sorry, but to me that is the definition of closed minded.

Note: I have presented this question before in several posts and it seems to be unanswerable, but what the heck, perhaps somone has a theory?

What was god doing before it created the universe 14 billion years ago? What was it doing for infinity (much more than a 'gagillion') years? I mean many of you seem to find is so impossible for humans to have evolved from other primates. But the notion that some supreme being has just been existing for infinity and suddenly decided to create a universe a little while ago to be a perfectly rational idea!

Again, what do you think God was doing for eternity before it (he) decided to create the universe?

[Stanislaw]

So, you are saying that science should just throw up their hands and stop trying to understand what is going on in the universe? Just accept without question that one partiuclar religion is right?? I'm sorry, but to me that is the definition of closed minded.

Note: I have presented this question before in several posts and it seems to be unanswerable, but what the heck, perhaps somone has a theory?

What was god doing before it created the universe 14 billion years ago? What was it doing for infinity (much more than a 'gagillion') years? I mean many of you seem to find is so impossible for humans to have evolved from other primates. But the notion that some supreme being has just been existing for infinity and suddenly decided to create a universe a little while ago to be a perfectly rational idea!

Again, what do you think God was doing for eternity before it (he) decided to create the universe?

I don't think thats what he was saying, I can't be certain though, I think generally, openmindedness on both sides should occur, both groups should acknowledge that the other side may have a point...innoccent untill guilty...

as for the question:

philisophically speeking, god is theoretically beyond our understanding, and thus perchance may not need to do anything in the snense of doing as we understand it. (thats platonic). or... we are not able to understand, based on our comprehensive limitations. (that is more rousseu , I murdered the spelling I know)

[Matrim Cuathon]

bookworm obviously doesnt know anything about physics.

[Bandiceet]

When I was in High School I had a teacher who was quite a devout Christian. He actually taught Physics.

He openly admitted that he had seen enough scientific proof that there was a big bang. (though mind you, I don't what he thought about evolution). He had seen the proof, beleived it, though he did beleive it was god that made it go "bang" in the first place.

After reading some of these posts, I have seen SOME people have the general opinion that they are right because they see everyone else as being wrong. (Please note that the operative word in that sentence is SOME not ALL)

Do not forget, Ladies and Gents, the question that started this thread is:
"Do you consider yourself an atheist?" People have answered this with comments to quanitify and explain their answers.
It is not "Do you think that people are wrong for their beleif?"

[Matrim Cuathon]

but thats implied...
if you consider yourself an atheist, you think that the religious people are wrong and vice versa.

[Wintermute]

. . .I think generally, openmindedness on both sides should occur, both groups should acknowledge that the other side may have a point...innoccent untill guilty...

Agreed

as for the question:

philisophically speeking, god is theoretically beyond our understanding, and thus perchance may not need to do anything in the snense of doing as we understand it. (thats platonic). or... we are not able to understand, based on our comprehensive limitations. (that is more rousseu , I murdered the spelling I know)

I was really wondering what YOU (anyone here) thought he/she/it was doing for infinity, not what philosophers of the past have concluded. Take a walk on the wild side--speculate. If you're so inclined. It seems like kind of convenient to answer a question with, "well, we're too dumb to understand God." We certainly understand some things, no--do unto others for example.

[watkinsguy]

Do not forget, Ladies and Gents, the question that started this thread is:
"Do you consider yourself an atheist?" People have answered this with comments to quanitify and explain their answers.
It is not "Do you think that people are wrong for their beleif?"

Oh yeah that thing I am not an atheist because being an atheist requires too much faith for me

[Stanislaw]

but thats implied...
if you consider yourself an atheist, you think that the religious people are wrong and vice versa.

Well, essentially, yes.

Agreed



I was really wondering what YOU (anyone here) thought he/she/it was doing for infinity, not what philosophers of the past have concluded. Take a walk on the wild side--speculate. If you're so inclined. It seems like kind of convenient to answer a question with, "well, we're too dumb to understand God." We certainly understand some things, no--do unto others for example.

Well, it does seem convineient, but consider children, they do not comprehend why there are laws/rules (eventually they do, as they grow) nor do they comprehend their birth or many things for that matter...maybe its a form of existance beyond our understanding...it seems like a convieniat answer...because it is, but at the same time, it does make sense logically.

but If I were to take a guess within human parameters...I really have no idea, maybe fishing...that's what I would do.

[Dante Wodehouse]

So, you are saying that science should just throw up their hands and stop trying to understand what is going on in the universe? Just accept without question that one partiuclar religion is right?? I'm sorry, but to me that is the definition of closed minded.

Note: I have presented this question before in several posts and it seems to be unanswerable, but what the heck, perhaps somone has a theory?

What was god doing before it created the universe 14 billion years ago? What was it doing for infinity (much more than a 'gagillion') years? I mean many of you seem to find is so impossible for humans to have evolved from other primates. But the notion that some supreme being has just been existing for infinity and suddenly decided to create a universe a little while ago to be a perfectly rational idea!

Again, what do you think God was doing for eternity before it (he) decided to create the universe?

No one knows what God was doing, but at least it is supposed to be a mysterious, unexplainable, and metaphysical, whereas the purely scientific big-bang theory believes everything has an order, yet still doesn't try to explain the pre-bang time period.
Of course a practicer of a religion is going to think that that religion is right while others are wrong. Who would follow a faith that they didn't regard as superior?

[SFG75]

do you think this list of qualities is unique to atheists only, or can Christians claim the same qualities? I ask this because many atheists seem to be under the (mistaken) impression that Christians are not critical thinkers, that we "blindly" follow "what we've been taught" and that we need to "think for ourselves."

Just so there is no misinterpreation, the context of my statement wasn't that religious people lack critical thinking skills, quite the contrary. Religious people are civically involved and that's a noble thing. To get to the heart of the matter, atheists don't organize themselves as well as religious people do. The American Humanist Association is a very small group compared to the relatively large number of atheists and humanists who would join. I don't believe that athiests feel compelled to join groups like that as many view it is a personal prerogative and are somewhat dismissive of those wh would "lead" the group. This is somewhat ironic to me as I know more than a few atheists who are very active in the ACLU or democratic politics. You would think they would be inclined to ban together to fight for the separation of church adn state more, but alas, that just isn't a big thing for some reason. I'm at a loss as to why that is thecase quite frankly. Christians in America have groups such as the Christian Coalition and Focus on the Family. They are well-financed and have a ton of members. At the same time, not every Christian is a member of either group, so yes, critical thinking is still around for Christians, as well as for every group out there.

On top of that, theree is a wide gap of opinion. Do I believe that a Unitarian is less of a critical thinker simply as a Christian? I do not. I know of many Methodists and Lutherans that I respect who are very profound and erudite intellectually.

Frankly, I think that's tired, stereotyping of Christians; it's almost as if many atheists want to brand rejection of established institutions, or "nonconformity" or whatever as their badge - but can't Christians claim the same qualites in different ways?

The sheer number of Christian sects bears that out. I would imagine that ministers/priests are also beside themselves at times with church members who clash with them over doctrinal matters. Stereotyping isn't right and yes, some atheists are "angry atheists" who only seek to trigger bad blood between people. I don't believe any group owes a monpoloy on that "bad" side of human behavior however.

[Wintermute]

No one knows what God was doing, but at least it is supposed to be a mysterious, unexplainable, and metaphysical, whereas the purely scientific big-bang theory believes everything has an order, yet still doesn't try to explain the pre-bang time period.
Of course a practicer of a religion is going to think that that religion is right while others are wrong. Who would follow a faith that they didn't regard as superior?

So, you don't want to speculate what it was doing for infinity. Fair enough, I understand you dilemma--kind of a sticky-wicket.

I'm not certain I understand what you mean by "the purely scientific big-bang theory believes everything has an order". By 'having an order' what do you mean exactly and specifically?

"Of course a practicer of a religion is going to think that that religion is right while others are wrong."

And this is not closed-minded?

[Bookworm4Him]

I was simply browsing and a specific post caught my eye.



If you really mean that seriously I...I am at a loss for words.

This is why some people are atheists. They question their beliefs for a while and extremists end up shoving the Bible down their throats and telling them that they will go to Hell if they do not believe in God.

Now, I'm not an atheist. I am a practicing LDS member, but I do have respect enough for those who believe differently. It doesn't mean that Christians, Muslims, or whatever you are should shun them simply because they don't believe in a higher being. God told us to love everyone. And it should end right there.

you are an athiest, so you don't belive in God, yet you claim that we should love each other because God commands it. Isn't that a little contradictory? I mean, I don't totally believe that quote either. Some people do do that, but you can't catagorize all atheists that way, just as you cant catagorize all Christians as "extremist who shove the Bible down their throats" But you can't claim something that was given by something that you don't believe exists.

[Bookworm4Him]

An atheist is rational and always willing to examine the evidence. They know that living by a set of ethical principles is the right thing to do and that the greatest measure of one's life, is to dedicate one's life to something beyond the self.

Well stated. Red already talked about this, but I will add my two cents. Red asked if it is possible that Christians are like this too. I am more than willing to examine the evidence. I was raised Christian, but you come to a time where people begin to tell you that Christianity isn't true, and I have examined it myself, and come to the conclusion that it the only logical option. When you accept that there is a God, but are questioning Jesus, a wonderful book to read is The Case For Christ. It is about a journalist that set out to prove Jesus, and the Bible, a fraud. I highly recommend all you atheists to try to pull apart his arguements, and let me know your results.
I realize that you only mean that quote for certain of the sect, and I will not catagorize all atheists by the multitude of bad ones, but I ask that you do not catagorize all the Christians by the majority of those who call themselves Christians.
"They try to dedicate their life to something beyond the self." Isn't that our whole purpose? To try to reach out and y'all the truth before you die and go to hell? gtg