I'm here to read this book with the Love of My Life

[LizzyBennet]

I read that same passage this morning where Mary told Anne what Wentworth said about her. I felt my chest tighten, and thought how comforting to have in my life a man who has told me repeatedly, in more than one way, that he will never forget who I am. That poor girl!
The love of your life must have strong emotions and convictions, no doubt very tender as well. Maybe she only lashes out when she feels she has been disregarded. Intent to hurt, I understand, may not be there, but there must also be intent to be conscientious enough to not cause harm by accident. There must be presence of mind and consideration of the potential for harm to be caused so as to be avoided.
I am going to wait for my true love. If Anne can do it, so can I.

[Weems]

It is conviction like that that binds a people together. Wow....

[Weems]

Toward the end of chapter 7 when Mary tells Anne about the comment Wentworth made about her, Anne "...soon began to rejoice that she had heard them. They were of sobering tendency; they allayed agitation; they composed, and consequently must make her happier." The next paragraph describes Anne's thoughts about how the conversation with Mary and Wentworth went and she made certain conclusions without any applifying conversation with Wentworth.

To me, Anne was trying to protect herself from the deep feelings she had by justifying away those feelings in the face of a perceived position the Wentworth had taken for her (notwithstanding the remark from Mary which could have been a power play). I think Anne was looking for "Poison" to hang her feelings of rejection and, maybe, hate on. I hope that as the plot develops we find that Anne was wrong in all or part and the Wentworth too was trying to protect himself by not showing his true feelings.

In the last few paragraphs of chap 7, Wentworth sounded very similar to Wickham in P&P when he is making fun of himself in the ribbon shop about ribbons and buckles. Wentworth wsa refering to the type of girl he would marry and was building a case for not needing much in the way of a woman. He was looking to be contradicted, but the last paragraph seems to really show his true feelings. I wrote in the margin, "Will anything do? Anyone? Anne is still very much on his mind...."

It follows in Chapter 8: "They had no conversation together, no intercourse but what the commonest civility required. ...there could have been no two hearts so open, no tastes so similar, no feelings so in unison, no countenances so beloved. Now they were as strangers; nay, worse than strangers, for they could never become acquainted. It was a perpetual estrangement."

THAT is true love! Their thoughts are on the other, but they are refusing to talk!!

I also have a theory on Charles Hayter that I will write about later.

[Weems]

I just finished Chapter 11. What a wonderful book! One thing I've noticed and I want to see if there is any relevence. *singing to "Records" right now!*

That thing is the use of names. I haven't fully developed this yet but I want to throw it out for consideration. First is that there has been a lot of buzz about Wentworth and Loiusa and Henrietta. He has been "courting these two and the bases of their names are male: Louis and Henry. I want to see if there is anything there as I read. Second is his name: Wentworth. Went worth. Went, as in left. Worth as in value. Was there value in his leaving? Lastly, and this is where it started: Charles Hayter. Is Hayter a noun or a verb? (Hater) I look forward to seeing if there is any substance to my thoughts!

Also, sentance length. I had an English teacher in high school who made us write sentences that were at least 25 words. James Fenimore Cooper in his Last of the Mohicans and Dickens in his Tale of Two Cities both had incredible sentence structure. In Chapter 11, Austen describes the city of Lyme. The paragraph is 3 sentences. The last two sentences are the description. The 2nd is about 138 word and the 3rd is about 144 if you count the articles. That kind of writing amazes me! My English teacher said that sentences have to be fully developed to be effective in writing. Not true. See? *Laughling at my own humor!*

[LizzyBennet]

So far in this book, the time is not just right for them to be re-connected. I am currently at the start of Chapter 9.

Here are some of my perceptions to this point:
She still thinks he looks good and won't deny it just because she thinks he thinks she looks worse. She can't convince herself otherwise.

She thinks he has decided that she has a feeble mind because she allowed herself to be persuaded by others to end their relationship. She says, "Her power with him was gone forever." She may not be out of his thoughts, but he wants "any pleasing young woman who came in his way, excepting Anne Elliot. This was his only secret exception."

She is certain, however, that he must remember their relationship. "Anne felt the utter impossibility, from her knowledge of his mind, that he could be unvisited by remembrance any more than herself." She seems shocked that they could once be so close and share so much together and now are like strangers. He treats her as though they were never anything. He offers her her seat back when she returns to the room, and she feels, "his cold politeness, his ceremonious grace, were worse than any thing."
But I wonder what she expects when he is probably thinking the same of her behavior towards him. It is a situation where someone needs to put themselves in a vulnerable position and find out what the other's true feelings are. He could still be suffering and secretly madly in love with her!

[LizzyBennet]

Anne and Wentworth: So close and yet so far....

[LizzyBennet]

I will be interested in looking closer at the names!

[Weems]

I'm backing up to chapter 9! Looking forward to slowing down a little!

While at the gym on an exercise bike I started back thru 9. I noticed my note and underling at the end of 8: "His cold politeness, his ceremonious grace, were worse than anything." I wrote "Ugh!" Seems like we both saw that!

So Charles Hayter is introduced. Because he is undeveloped and because Wentworth seems so dashing, all I could think of was "HA!" when he discovered that Henrietta was smitten by Wentworth. I'll watch to see if any sympathy is generated in Hayter as he is developed as a character.

I've also noticed that Lady Russell has dissappeared for now along with Elizabeth, Mrs, Clay and Walter Elliot who should all be in Bath right now. Will they come back into play? he asked inquisitively with an inquisitive brow....

Another "HA!" for Charles Hayter in the middle of page 54: "Henrietta fully thought so herself, before Cpt Wentworth came; but fromthat time Cousin Charles had been much forgotten." HA!

The next paragraph shows that Anne is NOT a disinterested third-party observer in the affairs between Wentworth, Louisa and Henrietta.

Watch for references to "brother" and "sister" as at the top and bottom of 54. That really made my brain do loops until I realized that even in-laws are described just as a brother or a sister.

Page 54 seems to be full of stuff. The paragraph about the two families being on excellent terms with no pride or envy seems to be contradicted in the second full paragraph on the next page. Mary Musgrove "looked down very decidedly upon the Hayters (the husbands ar blood brothers)..." So I find myself a little confused and think I am missing something. Help anyone?

I'm at the top of 56 now and just started making a list of all the people named Charles. Four so far.

[LizzyBennet]

I was thinking how appropriate the names Fred and Anne are... Otherwise, I don't really see any symbolism in the names.
I was reading last night (reached mid-Chapter 11), and I was thinking about how we really don't know what is going on in Wentworth's mind. We only get Anne's perspective on things. We know he asked if she danced. He pulled the child off her back and caused her extreme agitation. He discussed her with Louisa on the walk and how she turned down Charles Musgrove. He made it clear that he doesn't like indecisiveness. "My first wish for all, whom I am interested in, is that they should be firm." He also helped Anne into the carriage. She thought it was because he wanted to give her some relief. Maybe he did it so he could be more comfortable flirting with Louisa without Anne being around!
I think eventually we will come to know what his true feelings were during all these events. I hope he has been in love with Anne all along and not that she has to make him fall back in love with her.

[LizzyBennet]

Charles Musgrove and son, Charles Hayter, and who is the fourth?

I think there is no pride or envy in the parent families of the Musgroves and Hayters, the mothers of each family are sisters. The negative comments were made by Mary, who seems to be just a pill in general. She is self-absorbed, and I do not care for her! She was concerned more about what the union of Henrietta and Charles Hayter would mean for her. Yuk!

[Weems]

The mothers of the Musgroves and Hayters are Mary (Blood sister to Anne and Elizabeth) I don't know the Hayter first name. But this is what I was referring to about "in-laws" being refered to strictly as brother or sister. These two are inlaws.

Anne refers at the bottom of 54 that she "...had to listen to the opinions of her bother and sister [which they prefered for Wentworth, Loiusa or Henriett]. " I thought, Anne had a brother?! I went back to page one and it clarified that Charles, son and heir of Charles Musgrove (the fourth Charles! so far!) married Mary on the 16th of Dec 1810. So Mary and Mrs Musgrove are sisters-in-law. I know, it's confusing but that should help.

Tell me about the names Fred and Anne.

Mary's contempt for Charles Hayter marrying one of her daughters is that the Musgroves are basically nothing. Again p54 "and while the Musgroves were in the first class of society...the young Hayters (Charles and whichever daughter) would, from their parents' inferior, retired and unpolished way of living, and their own defective education, have been hardly in any class at all, but for their connexion with Uppercross; this eldest son of course excepted (Charles, right?), who had chosen to be a scholar and a gentleman, and who was superior in cultivation and manners to all the rest. (and here I need some schooling because things are not adding up right now. Mary is 2 years younger than Anne and Anne is 26 right now, correct? How could Mary have two daughters that are of marrying age?)

Great observation on Wentworth's mind! I, too, hope you are right about him still being in love with her!!...

[LizzyBennet]

Anne is 27. Page 2-she was 14 when her mother passed away and that was 13 years ago.
The names Fred and Anne resemble other names I like to hear together.
Okay, let me set you straight! There are two families at Uppercross, the Musgrove parents in the mansion, children are Charles, the twins, and deceased Richard. Mrs. Musgrove is Mary's mother-in-law. Charles, Jr. and Mary (Anne and Elizabeth's sister) live in the cottage. When Anne refers to her brother and sister on page 54, she means her sister, Mary and brother-in-law, Charles, Jr. They have ?many children, one of which is Charles, III. The eldest Mrs. Musgrove is sister to Mrs. Hayter. The Hayters live at Winthrop, and their son Charles is expected to wed Henrietta (first cousins-yuk!)

[Weems]

Thank you for that, Speedy Gonzonlez! Where did you find that on the mother Musgroves? Should we just read thru as fast as we can and then go back or go slow? I'm all for getting thru it, together, as fast as we can and then coming back thru it! Will you read it a second time with me?...

[LizzyBennet]

On page 20 is the original reference to Charles marrying Mary. (They have 2 children). Mary is always referred to as Mary (exc once she was called Mrs. Charles by her mother-in-law, bottom page 31), and his mother is always referred to as Mrs. Musgrove.
Uppercross Cottage is described at the bottom of page 25. The parent's home is called the Great House. Page 29 talks about the parents and the children, Charles, Henrietta and Louisa.
Top of 54 says "Mrs. Musgrove and Mrs. Hayter were sisters."

I would love to read through twice. My time to read is inconsistent, however. I hope I can keep up with you!

[Weems]

Poke! ICU! I will read at your pace! Keep me informed as to where you are and where you hope to go!