Altruism, a possibility, a hope, or just stupid

[Adudaewen]

I think all humans are born with a moral compass. It just makes biologic sense that you would want to aid those in distress, that you would give of yourself to improve your community, and that you would nurture not only your children but the children of others. These things ensure the survival of your species and lessen animosity and violence. From and evolutionary standpoint, I think that altruism can be seen as a survival mechansim for a human species. But people can be given a moral compass, but its up to them to follow it. And in our world today, its few and far between to see a truly good deed (and i'm including myself in that). We live in a "gimme gimme" world, and its going to be our downfall.

[Lioness_Heart]

I think that it is very hard to be altruistic about big things, because they tend to be things that you think about and consider, so if you do something good, it is likely to be beneficial to you too.

However, over little, spur-of-the-moment things, I think that people can be altruistic, like if someone that you don't know and will never meet again is looking depressed, and you smile at them, and then they look a bit happier. It is a nice thing to do, but having not considered it, it is altruistic, as you haven't considered what is in it for you. People say that it is not, because it makes you feel good too, but if you don't consider this when you perform the good deed, then I think taht it is still altruistic, really.

Although I believe that it is good enough for people to do good things even if they are not being altuistic: the effect is still the same. But I want to believe that people can be altruistic. It makes the world seem a much nicer place .

[dramasnot6]

We live in a "gimme gimme" world, and its going to be our downfall.

agreed. Look at global warming, isnt it already our downfall?

[Silvia]

I agree with those of you who said that altruism could be translated into egoism. Not that I want to be cynical or provocatory.
In my opinion it is important to help the others while it is not so important the reason why you do it. I mean, we can't act in a completely disinterested way, even if we are convinced of the opposite.
And, to tell the truth, I don't think it is something negative at all. It's just nature. The first person we have to take care of is ourselves.
When we give a beggar some coins, we can't help thinking about how good we are...we are altruist, yes, towards him and towards us.
Does this cancel our good action or ruin it? I don't think so!
Anyway, this is just my opinion!

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Hmm...Yes...Yes...I see what you're getting at.

Altruism is the act of being unselfish and/or having a deep devotion of helping out others.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that the people who follows the path of "altruism" do so because they want and/or is expecting something out of their good deed?

Hmm...Well, that is true for some, if not most, people in this world. I, however, do believe that there is such a thing as "altruism". You see, there are those out there in the world today that perform good deeds and expect nothing of it.

No five minutes of fame, expecting to get into Heaven, appease a guilty conscience, and so on. They do it just for sake of not seeing another human being getting hurt or suffer.

Oh, crap...I said "sake"....Oh, well, if you're going to bring that up...Then it's just silly.

Beside, "altruism" would still exist because there are those who still performs good deeds everyday...I think...

Umm...Anyway, the only way "altruism" would not exist is if no one perform any good deeds in the world at all.

Also, there are those who can see benefits from performing a good deed but still does not do so. Why? Probably because they don't care. Which also brings "altruism" to exists because of "egoism". The ones who sees an opportunity to help out those in need of assistence but does not do so because he/she values himself/herself more than that of the one in need of assistence also contributes to the existence of "altruism".

Hmm...Altruism...Egoism...

No, wait...Okay...I'm drawing blank.

But lets see what I can pull out of this blank head of mine.

Egoism is basically self-interest. Cares only for oneself. Only help others in need (If he/she does so at all) if it benefits himself/herself.

Altruism is basically a caring and/or devotion of the welfare of others. Help those in need of assistence im, if not all, many different situations...Possibly naive...But that's not the point. Also expects nothing (Hopefully...But highly doubtful for most people) in return.

Okay...Now that I got that cleared up...Lets go!

Example: A hot chick is shopping in the grocery store...And I happen to "accidently" bump into her and she drops her purse, bags, and various produce.

There are two dudes are standing nearby that saw the incident.

Now, one of them is thinking "Should I help her out? What do I get out of it? Nah. She can pick those things up herself. Besides, she not THAT hot." So he walks passed her without lending a hand. Egoism? I think so.

The second dude, however, goes in to help. "Oh! Here, let me help you with those" *Picks up her falling things and whatnot*

Hot Chick: "Thank, you" *Smiles* Continues with her shopping.

Kind Dude: "No, problem" *Continues with looking at Maxim's magazine*

So, basically, if "Egoism" exists as you just saw from the example above, "Altruism" must exists as well.

Altruism can only exists if someone (Egoist) ingnores someone who's in need of assistence and/or require some assistence to make the process easier...But if another person (Altruist) saw someone in such a situation and helps out...It is because of Egoism.

For Egoism is born out of self-interest and selfishness(Choose to ingnore)...All the while, Altrism is born out of love, devotion, and caring for the welfare of others.(Choose to help)

Ugh ...Dude...I'm going to have to quit for today, man. If I go any further I'll probably confuse myself and forget what I was talking about...More then I already am, at least.

I agree with those of you who said that altruism could be translated into egoism. Not that I want to be cynical or provocatory.
In my opinion it is important to help the others while it is not so important the reason why you do it. I mean, we can't act in a completely disinterested way, even if we are convinced of the opposite.
And, to tell the truth, I don't think it is something negative at all. It's just nature. The first person we have to take care of is ourselves.
When we give a beggar some coins, we can't help thinking about how good we are...we are altruist, yes, towards him and towards us.
Does this cancel our good action or ruin it? I don't think so!
Anyway, this is just my opinion!

Alright, alright...Sivia is right.

Humans help out others just because of the benefits that they see for themselves. (i.e. redemption, ease guilty feelings, getting into Heaven, etc.) It's human nature.

But...In my last two post, I'm just saying that there MIGHT be someone out there that help those in need AND not expect ANYTHING out of it. That's all. I mean, c'mon! There's gotta be someone out there that helps out others just for the sake of helping out others.

But, you know what? In the end, I say this...If you're helping out those in need you've done a good thing. It's all good.

[Silvia]

Originally Posted by Neo_Sephiroth
Hmm...Altruism...Egoism...

No, wait...Okay...I'm drawing blank.

But lets see what I can pull out of this blank head of mine.

Egoism is basically self-interest. Cares only for oneself. Only help others in need (If he/she does so at all) if it benefits himself/herself.

Altruism is basically a caring and/or devotion of the welfare of others. Help those in need of assistence im, if not all, many different situations...Possibly naive...But that's not the point. Also expects nothing (Hopefully...But highly doubtful for most people) in return.

Okay...Now that I got that cleared up...Lets go!

Example: A hot chick is shopping in the grocery store...And I happen to "accidently" bump into her and she drops her purse, bags, and various produce.

There are two dudes are standing nearby that saw the incident.

Now, one of them is thinking "Should I help her out? What do I get out of it? Nah. She can pick those things up herself. Besides, she not THAT hot." So he walks passed her without lending a hand. Egoism? I think so.

The second dude, however, goes in to help. "Oh! Here, let me help you with those" *Picks up her falling things and whatnot*

Hot Chick: "Thank, you" *Smiles* Continues with her shopping.

Kind Dude: "No, problem" *Continues with looking at Maxim's magazine*

So, basically, if "Egoism" exists as you just saw from the example above, "Altruism" must exists as well.

Altruism can only exists if someone (Egoist) ingnores someone who's in need of assistence and/or require some assistence to make the process easier...But if another person (Altruist) saw someone in such a situation and helps out...It is because of Egoism.

For Egoism is born out of self-interest and selfishness(Choose to ingnore)...All the while, Altrism is born out of love, devotion, and caring for the welfare of others.(Choose to help)

Ugh ...Dude...I'm going to have to quit for today, man. If I go any further I'll probably confuse myself and forget what I was talking about...More then I already am, at least.

I don't agree with you on this point, Neo_Sephiroth.
I don't think egoism and altruism have the same relashionship which exist between good-evil or God-Satan...I mean, you're not altruist because someone before you has been egoist...
I DO believe there are peole who are sincere in their altruism and help the others with all the best intentions.
But I'm still convinced they're not doing it"just for the sake of helping out"
John Donne said no man is an island...and that each one is part of the continent, of a whole, and that the pain of someone else affects me for I am part of this whole just in the same way he/she is.
This is the point, in my opinion.
If you are altruist, this means you want to prevent people from suffering anymore by helping them, right? because their suffering affects you as human being and because you want to feel part of that something.
Yes, you are sensitive, generous, helpful and....egoist somehow.

I say this because I believe we're all connected to each other, but you may think differently!!

[Neo_Sephiroth]

I don't agree with you on this point, Neo_Sephiroth.
I don't think egoism and altruism have the same relashionship which exist between good-evil or God-Satan...I mean, you're not altruist because someone before you has been egoist...
I DO believe there are peole who are sincere in their altruism and help the others with all the best intentions.
But I'm still convinced they're not doing it"just for the sake of helping out"
John Donne said no man is an island...and that each one is part of the continent, of a whole, and that the pain of someone else affects me for I am part of this whole just in the same way he/she is.
This is the point, in my opinion.
If you are altruist, this means you want to prevent people from suffering anymore by helping them, right? because their suffering affects you as human being and because you want to feel part of that something.
Yes, you are sensitive, generous, helpful and....egoist somehow.

I say this because I believe we're all connected to each other, but you may think differently!!

Okay, okay...I give. I give.

*Sigh* You got me, Silvia.

I am an egoist and an altruist at the same time.

I help those in need not for a ticket into heaven but to help them out in their pain.

But, because of their suffering, I suffer as well. Why? I don't know. But I am a part of this world and I feel that if they suffer, I suffer as well, so I help them out as I feel that it would ease my suffering as well.

...*Whimpering*...

...Why? Please...No more. I give!!!

[Triskele]

[QUOTE=Neo_Sephiroth;328276]Okay, okay...I give. I give.

*Sigh* You got me, Silvia.

I am an egoist and an altruist at the same time.

I help those in need not for a ticket into heaven but to help them out in their pain.

But, because of their suffering, I suffer as well. Why? I don't know. But I am a part of this world and I feel that if they suffer, I suffer as well, so I help them out out as I feel that it would ease my suffering as well.

...*Whimpering*...

...Why? Please...No more. I give!!![Quote]

interesting, but to me, being an egoist necessarily puts you on the selfish side of the altruism/ enlightened self interest line, as long as you subconciously realize a benefit to yourself, you, at least to me, are not being altuistic, you are still putting good into the world, but that is hardly altruism.

[Neo_Sephiroth]

So...You stand by your first statement saying that there is no such thing as "altruism"?

[Adudaewen]

You know, I've been thinking about this ever since this thread got started and something has been bugging me. Shouldn't it feel good to do something good for someone else? I mean, it would be a little bit unusual if you did something that really made a difference in someone's life, and it didnt' make you smile, or give you the warm-fuzzies. So, what the hell, why can't you be altruistic and still get a sense of joy from your good deeds. I think you've earned a little bit of happiness, right?

[hyperborean]

Guys like Nietzsche would ridicule you for saying that, but I can feel where you're coming from.

Here's a good website on altruism. It talks about how altruism is in our biological makeup to help kin. http://www.humantruth.info/altruism.html

[Neo_Sephiroth]

You know, I've been thinking about this ever since this thread got started and something has been bugging me. Shouldn't it feel good to do something good for someone else? I mean, it would be a little bit unusual if you did something that really made a difference in someone's life, and it didnt' make you smile, or give you the warm-fuzzies. So, what the hell, why can't you be altruistic and still get a sense of joy from your good deeds. I think you've earned a little bit of happiness, right?

I know! When I do a good deed...Give me the warm-fuzzies, man!

[Redzeppelin]

Guys like Nietzsche would ridicule you for saying that

Why not bring up a philosopher relevant to the discussion, one who carries it forward instead of one selected because of his aversion to the topic under discussion? Why respond to Adudaewen's post with something geared to diminish what she said? (I assume "she" - correct me if I'm wrong, Adudaewen.) I don't get inserting Nietzsche here if the only purpose of doing so is simply to tell someone else they're "ridiculous."

There are ways to name-drop that do not require diminishing someone else.

[hyperborean]

And did you read the rest of my post! You are the one making a fool out of yourself. You are obviously showing hostility by criticizing every post I make on this forum.

I didn't say I agreed with Nietzsche did I? I brought up someone that hated altruism in order to show a different perspective. I wasn't diminishing anyone, and your vicious posts aren't contributing to the topic, so cut it.

[atiguhya padma]

If the provider of altruism benefits from their act in anyway, does this negate the act or make it less pure in some way?

If we are programmed to be altruistic towards those that share our genes, does this denigrate the idea of altruism?

If somebody is truly altruistic, does this mean they operate altruistically unintentionally?

If your 'altruism' is based on a moral set of rules that you follow for religious purposes, is this really altruism? Is this as altruistic as a non-religious person doing the same act out of instinct? or because they feel empathy?

Even if you act charitably incognito, you still know what you have done and can benefit from having good thoughts about yourself.