Veggie club :)

[dramasnot6]

Vegetarian now or at one point in your life? Maybe just interested in special diets? Whatever you are come on over and discuss Vegetarianism. Why do some get into it? How? Or, why do some not get into it? Did a friend influence you? See a documentary? Or just for the heck of it?


EDIT: This thread is in no way trying to claim vegetarianism as a superior diet or trying to demoralize eating meat or prove anything about health.

[Adudaewen]

I have to say drama, I tried to be a vegitarian for about 6 weeks, but it didn't take. I live in cow country. Try ordering a vegitarian meal and you get looked at funny.

[mir]

I couldn't be a vergetarian because i love chicken too much. but much of the stuff i cook is vegetarian.

[Jean-Baptiste]

Well, this isn't looking good for your new vegetarian community, Drama. I would consider becoming vegetarian for the fact that some of the best meals I've ever eaten contained no meat--but I love bacon. I also see the benefit in energy required for food production in a vegetarian society compared to that of live-stock support--but again, bacon. I do applaud those with a vegetarian bent. Is half vegetarian good enough?

[Virgil]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it? I can understand vegetarians who do it for religious reasons. And I do beleive that in the U.S. we probably eat more meat than is healthy for us. But that does not mean that no meat is healthier than some meat. I have never seen a statisitic that showed vegetarians having a longer life expectancy. Human beings have teeth designed for both meat and vegetables and a digestive system that accomodates both. It is natural for humans to eat meat. There is a higher concentration of nutrition packed in meat than in fruits and vegetables. It is healthy to have meat. It is human to have meat.

[dramasnot6]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it? I can understand vegetarians who do it for religious reasons. And I do beleive that in the U.S. we probably eat more meat than is healthy for us. But that does not mean that no meat is healthier than some meat. I have never seen a statisitic that showed vegetarians having a longer life expectancy. Human beings have teeth designed for both meat and vegetables and a digestive system that accomodates both. It is natural for humans to eat meat. There is a higher concentration of nutrition packed in meat than in fruits and vegetables. It is healthy to have meat. It is human to have meat.

Statistics? Easy, they are all over.

Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by human beings: 20

Percentage of corn grown in United States eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in United States eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 90

Percentage of carbohydrate wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 99

Percentage of dietary fibre wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 100

How frequently a child dies of starvation: Every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on 1 acre of land: 20,000

Pounds of beef that can be produced on 1 acre of land: 165

Percentage of U.S. agricultural land used to produce beef: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce 1 pound of feedlot beef: 16

Pounds of protein fed to chickens to produce 1 pound of protein as chicken flesh: 5 pounds

Pounds of protein fed to hogs to produce 1 pound of protein as hog flesh: 7.5 pounds

Number of children who starve to death every day: 40,000

Number of pure vegetarians who can be fed on the amount of land needed to feed 1 person consuming meat-based diet: 20

Number of people who will starve to death this year: 60,000,000

Number of people who could be adequately fed by the grain saved if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 60,000,000

From http://www.aapn.org/vegstats.html







"fruits and vegetables" are not the only source of food in the vegetarian or even vegan diet. There is a huge world of NUTS and SEEDS and LEGUMEs out there that more then adequately supply one with a balance of amino acids, omegas, iron, and LOTS of other vitamins and minerals. The Meat Production industry, as you see from the above statistics, is also wasteful compared to the grain, bean and veggie industry, contributing greatly to pollution and costing more money. Not to mention the animal cruelty. Only a VERY tiny percentage of meat production is Free Range or some other form of relatively humane treatment, most are cruel and wasteful.


This site has VERY valid information, much of which is taken from government statistics, around Vegetarianism. http://www.selfempowermentacademy.co...rn/5-vvmbd.PDF

**Inhumane Treatment of Livestock**
121. Wingspan of average leghorn chicken: 26 inches (66 cm)
122. Space average leghorn chicken is given in egg factories: 6 inches 15.3 cm)
123. Number of 700+ lb. (318+ kg) pigs confined to space the size of a twin bed in typical factory farm:
3
124. Reason today¹s veal is so tender: Calves are never allowed to take a single step.
125. Reason today¹s veal is whitish-pink: Calves forced-fed on anemia producing diet
126. McDonald¹s brags: billions and billions sold
127. McDonald¹s does not brag about: millions and millions butchered
128. McDonald¹s clown, Ronald McDonald, tells children: Hamburgers grow in hamburger patches
and love to be eaten.
129. McDonald¹s clown, Ronald McDonald, does not tell children: Hamburgers are ground up, cooked
cows who have had their throats slit by machetes or their brains bashed in with sledgehammers.
130. Original actor to play Ronald McDonald: Jeff Juliano
131. Diet now followed by Jeff Juliano: Vegetarian
132. Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 500,000
133. Occupation with highest turnover rate in the U.S.: Slaughterhouse worker
134. Cost to render an animal unconscious prior to slaughter with captive bolt pistol so that process in
done humanely: $.01
135. Reason given by meat industry for not utilizing captive bolt pistol: Too expensive.

**Meat, Dairy, and Egg Industries**
67. Meat, dairy and egg industries claim there is no reason to be concerned about your blood cholesterol
as long as it is: ³normal²
68. Risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries (atherosclerosis) if your blood cholesterol is
³normal²: over 50%
69. Risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries (atherosclerosis) if you do not consume
saturated fat and cholesterol: 5%
70. Leading sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in American diets: Meat, dairy products, and eggs
71. World populations with high meat intakes who do not have correspondingly high rates of colon
cancer: none
72. World populations with low meat intakes who do not have correspondingly low rates of colon
cancer: none
73. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat daily compared to women who eat meat
less than once a week: 4 times higher
74. Egg Board¹s advertising slogan: ³The incredible, edible egg.²
75. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat eggs daily compared to women who eat eggs less
than once a week: 3 times higher
76. Milk producer¹s original advertising campaign slogan: ³Everyone needs milk.²
77. What the Federal Trade Commission called the ³Everyone needs milk² slogan: ³False, misleading
and deceptive.²
78. Milk producer¹s revised campaign slogans: ³Milk has something for everybody,² and ³Milk does a
body good.²
79. Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 or more times a week
compared to women who eat these foods less than once a week: 3 times higher
80. Part of female chicken¹s body that produces eggs: Ovaries
81. Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week compared to
women who eat eggs less than once a week: 3 times higher
82. Food males in the U.S. are conditioned to think of as ³manly²: Animal products (mostly meat)
83. Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meats,cheese, milk and eggs daily
compared to men who eat these foods sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times higher
84. The Meat Board tells you: ³Today¹s meats are low in fat.²
85. The Meat Board shows you: A serving of beef they claim has ³only 300 calories.²
86. The Meat Board does not tell you: The serving of beef they show you is only 3 ounces (85 grams),
which is half the size of an average serving of beef, and has been surgically de-fatted with a scalpel.
87. The dairy industry tells you: Whole milk is 3.5% fat.
88. The dairy industry does not tell you: That 3.5% figure is based on weight and most of the weight in
milk is water.
89. The dairy industry does not want you to know: The amount of calories as fat in whole milk is
50%.
90. The meat company Oscar Mayer tells you: It is a ³myth² that hot dogs are fatty.
91. Oscar Meyer demonstrates their point by comparing the fatness of hot dogs to such high-fat
bastions as mayonnaise, margarine, salad dressing, and cream cheese.
92. The Dairy Council tells you: Milk is Nature¹s most perfect food.
93. The Dairy Council does not tell you: Milk is Nature¹s most perfect food for a baby calf, who has
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four stomachs, will double its weight in 47 days, and is destined to weigh 300 pounds (136 kg) within
a year.
94. The Dairy Council tells children to: Grow up big and strong and drink lots of milk.
95. The Dairy Council occasionally tells children: The enzyme necessary for digestion of milk is
lactase.
96. The Dairy Council never tells children: 20% of Caucasian children and 80% of black children have
no lactase in their intestines (Humanity has gone so far as to create a pill that aids in the digestion of
dairy products. This is just as insane as taking a pill before you drink motor oil to help in the digestion
of that motor oil. If your body is not
designed to naturally digest a certain substance then maybe you should not consume it).
97. The meat, dairy and egg industries tell you: Animal products constitute 2 of the ³Basic 4² food
groups.
98. The meat, dairy and egg industries do not tell you: There were originally 12 basic food groups,
before these industries applied enormous political pressure on behalf of their products.
99. The meat, dairy and egg industries tell you: You are well-fed only with animal products.
100. The meat, dairy and egg industries do not tell you: The diseases which are commonly prevented,
consistently improved, and even cured by a vegetarian diet include: Heart disease, strokes, osteoporosis,
kidney stones, breast cancer, colon cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, cervical
cancer, stomach cancer, endometrial cancer, diabetes, hypoglycemia, kidney disease, peptic ulcers,
constipation, hemorrhoids, hiatal hernias, diverticulosis, obesity, gallstones, hypertension, asthma,
irritable colon syndrome, salmonellosis, trichinosis, etc.

Now Virgil. This was started as a DISCUSSION and not a raging , personal debate. I posted the above so that people would not be misinformed, not to fight you. If anyone else is interested in information around nutrition and particulary vegetarianism, I would reccomend it as a great field to research and can give some other good web/book sources. I did not start this thread to hold my personal beliefs above anyone else's or to try to "convert" anyone to a certain nutritional view. It is merely a discussion, if you can not respect that then you can take it up with the moderators.

[Logos]

I don't understand why we must applaud vegetarianism. What is so noble about it?

? I don't see anything in the OP to suggest we should 'applaud' it, or that it is 'noble'.

To the OP: I don't consciously choose to not eat meat, I just happen to like lots of foods that don't use a lot of meat (Afghan, Middle Eastern, West Indies, Moroccan etc) I might go days/a week or so before I actually eat meat. I make a lot of curries with a veggie base (tomato or spinach usually) and I eat lots of chick peas and lentils because they're so versatile and I love them.

[Virgil]

Now Virgil. This was started as a DISCUSSION and not a raging , personal debate.

Who's raging? Nor was I raging on the Nietzsche thread. Threads are I take it for discussion purposes, even of people disagree with the thread starter's position. Are we here to just validate a position and not expect anyone to disagree? That's not discussion; that's emotional soothing.

Jean-B applauded vegetarianism. He used that word and it struck me. I don't either applaud or despise it. But there is another perspective. Humanity as a rule is not vegetarian and i don't understand the propaganda that says its better for you. If people choose vegetarianism for whatever reason, fine. But I don't expect guilt to be placed on people who don't choose it.

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?

[Logos]

If anybody has any veggie recipes, simple ones, like for dips, salads, etc. would love to see them. I'll share a couple of mine when I get them typed up

[kathycf]

I like barley and when it is cold out this is nice soup:

From Vegetarian Times...

Barley Soup with Root Vegetables 01-Jan-06 p63
Serves 8 -- Vegan

Nutty-tasting barley and sweet, mild celery root make a homey soup with old-fashioned flavor. To speed up cooking time, replace the pearl barley with quick-cooking barley, add it with the carrots and celery root and simmer the soup for about 20 minutes total.

1 Tbs. olive oil
3 medium-sized leeks, white and pale green parts only, sliced (about 2 cups)
3 cloves garlic, minced (about 1 Tbs.)
1/3 cup pearl barley
2 cubes low-sodium vegetable bouillon
3 medium-sized carrots, diced (about 1 1/2 cups)
1 small celery root, peeled and diced (about 1 1/2 cups)
1/3 cup chopped fresh dill
1 Tbs. lemon juice

Directions:

1. Heat oil in large pot over medium heat. Add leeks, and cook 5 minutes, or until softened, stirring often. Add garlic, and sauté 30 seconds. Stir in barley. Add 7 cups water and bouillon cubes. Bring soup to a boil. Reduce heat to low, skim off any froth, cover and simmer 20 minutes.

2. Add carrots and celery root. Cover, and simmer 20 to 25 minutes more, or until barley and vegetables are tender. Just before serving, stir in dill, lemon juice and black pepper to taste.

PER SERVING: 79 CAL; 2 G PROT; 2 G TOTAL FAT (0 SAT. FAT); 14 G CARB.; 0 MG CHOL; 276 MG SOD.; 3 G FIBER; 2 G SUGARS

*edit*
No moralizing intended but a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol (which meat has, although some cuts are leaner than others) does shorten the life span, and a diet high in fiber/vitamin rich foods (vegetables, fruits, legumes) has been shown to lessen the incidence of certain types of cancers and is more heart healthy. This is not to say that the only way to be healthy is to cut out all meat, it is just to say that one can have a high quality healthy diet without it.

[SleepyWitch]

Who's raging? Nor was I raging on the Nietzsche thread. Threads are I take it for discussion purposes, even of people disagree with the thread starter's position. Are we here to just validate a position and not expect anyone to disagree? That's not discussion; that's emotional soothing.

Jean-B applauded vegetarianism. He used that word and it struck me. I don't either applaud or despise it. But there is another perspective. Humanity as a rule is not vegetarian and i don't understand the propaganda that says its better for you. If people choose vegetarianism for whatever reason, fine. But I don't expect guilt to be placed on people who don't choose it.

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?

(I'm a veggie, too)
hey old Virg, your evolutionary argument is slightly flawed, in my humble opinion. I agree that people are equipped with the right kind of teeth and digestive tract to eat meat. But even back in the stone age, eating meat would have been the exception rather than the rule because it was such a big hassle to catch the meat in the first place. Even as late as in the Middle Ages, having meat was a very special treat. I think even the richest and most powerful people ate meat only a couple of times a year and the poor were lucky if they had meat once a year.
in other words, our bodies can cope with small amounts of meat but not necessarily with the huge amounts people eat nowadays. I heard several reports on a public news radio station where they interviewed doctors and nutritionists and they said you shouldn't eat meat more than once a week.

anyways, there's no need to feel offended by vegetarians. I know that lots of them go around preaching and trying to convert people, but I'm sure that's not what drama intended. If you like meat, go ahead and eat as much of it as you want. (of course, you could try organic meat. NOT because it's a noble thing to do but because organic meat happens to taste much better and our Uncle Virgil deserves it )

[bluevictim]

Bottom line on all that data is this: does life expectancy improve for vegetarians?

Yeah, I want to know, too. I've been eating meat to shorten my life. I want out!

[Riesa]

It is human to have meat.

ick. I am not vegetarian, I eat fish. and I will ignore that my favorite tex-mex restaurant Taco Cabana's refried beans reek with lard, and I'll cook bacon or cow eyeballs, even, if requested, (no one has as yet) but the other night I was preparing baby-back ribs for the grill, and my seven year old is looking on with a mix of horror and fascination on his face at the bloody gore I'm slicing up and asks..."what are those?" And I said "they're ribs", and he said.."are they human ribs?" as if that wouldn't be so odd.
Personally, eating meat makes me feel sick, like I am eating Human. and so I steer clear, pun intended.

[kathycf]

ick. the other night I was preparing baby-back ribs for the grill, and my seven year old is looking on with a mix of horror and fascination on his face at the bloody gore I'm slicing up and asks..."what are those?" And I said "they're ribs", and he said.."are they human ribs?" as if that wouldn't be so odd.

Ewwww! And dancing broccoli agrees with me. Eww!

Personally, eating meat makes me feel sick, like I am eating Human. and so I steer clear, pun intended.

Me too, although there are certain times of the year when I will eat turkey.

[bluevictim]

And dancing broccoli agrees with me.

You mean, before you ate him?