Raoul's love

[RDraconis]

*sigh* Don't get me started on the fop thing...all right, you just did. Erik is more of a fop than Raoul. Just think about it. Fop: Dandy, someone who is vain and obsessed with their looks.

You don't see Raoul wearing a wig and mask for a bad sunburn, do you? Erik is totally all over his looks. Just take a minute to think about it, please.

All right, just because Raoul is rich and handsome means we all hate him, right? *bangs head on computer* And we all love Erik because he's an insane homicidal maniac who is rich and who should get Christine because apparently he loved her more and even though Christine didn't love him, it's all about Erik, right? So why SHOULDN'T Erik get Christine? UGH!

This is like Romeo & Juliet. "It's shooooo romantic!" He wubs her sooooo much! He'd do anything for her! They should go and get married and have beautiful, musical genius kids that are so beautiful because Erik would be soooo beautiful if it weren't for that half of hid face! Yah. It's their fantasy, I don't see too much problem with it. Actually, I really like the fantasy- especially in terms of the movie.
I really would like to see book-Erik find happiness, though...

Also- in the book it wasn't a bad sunburn. And it wasn't a freaking white mask- it was black, allowing him to blend into the shadows further. Basically, he was a black figure with two yellow lights from his eyes. It didn't just make it so you didn't see the deformity- it added to the feeling that he was nothing but a spectre.

In the '25 movie he had a white mask, but that was probably only because it's hard to show a black mask and have it look good in black & white. This time it was more to hide his appearance- but that's because it was easier to move about unnoticed with that mask. It looked wrong, but less wrong than his real face.

In the musical, however, it's not even a full mask. And it's 100x more noticeable than his normal deformities, because they weren't that bad and white catches the eye more than skin tone.
I don't know why Webber decided to make it a musical... Yeah, if we had left it at the '25 version you'd hear no "OMG! CHRISSY LURRRVVVSSSS ERIKK!!!111!". >_<

I don't like Christine or Raoul in the musical-movie, there wasn't any chemistry. But, I think she and Raoul loved each other in every other version- so I agree they should be together. But I still think Erik should have had some happiness. Not her or anything... just something or someone.

[emilysweety]

Erik is too "tyranny", you know. He wants Christine so much but at the end, he didn't gain anything but a kiss. But I guess it's enough for him already, that's why he let Christine and Raoul escaped.

[RDraconis]

He wasn't really a tyrant any more than he thought he had to be. I mean, think about it, when you grow up getting treated like that- you think that's how everyone'll be after awhile, and just stop giving people that much benefit of the doubt.

[Wandering_Child]

Also- in the book it wasn't a bad sunburn. And it wasn't a freaking white mask- it was black, allowing him to blend into the shadows further. Basically, he was a black figure with two yellow lights from his eyes. It didn't just make it so you didn't see the deformity- it added to the feeling that he was nothing but a spectre.

In the '25 movie he had a white mask, but that was probably only because it's hard to show a black mask and have it look good in black & white. This time it was more to hide his appearance- but that's because it was easier to move about unnoticed with that mask. It looked wrong, but less wrong than his real face.

In the musical, however, it's not even a full mask. And it's 100x more noticeable than his normal deformities, because they weren't that bad and white catches the eye more than skin tone.
I don't know why Webber decided to make it a musical... Yeah, if we had left it at the '25 version you'd hear no "OMG! CHRISSY LURRRVVVSSSS ERIKK!!!111!". >_<

I don't like Christine or Raoul in the musical-movie, there wasn't any chemistry. But, I think she and Raoul loved each other in every other version- so I agree they should be together. But I still think Erik should have had some happiness. Not her or anything... just something or someone.

*laughs* Yeah, I was bummed about the whole movie/musical mask. But it's a LOT harder for actors to show facial expressions and such with a full-face mask. And I was especially ticked when I saw that Erik had a real nose in the movie. It was basically impossible onstage, but now with all of the special effects coming out they should have made the Phantom look more gruesome. Erik is not a sex-god, really, seriously, people. So all of you phan gurls who are saying, "OMG! LYKE< ERICK IS SOOO FRIGIN" HAUWT!!! ND< ND LYKE I WUNT 2 KISS HIM NDLYKE STUF! YAH!!!" I must burst your bubble. Erik is NOT "hauwt" or "schmexy" in any way. Unless you think a fifty year-old virgin who stinks of death, has yellow eyes, rotting teeth, and the body of an undernourished five year-old is "hauwt." Correct me if anyone does.

And RDraconis, that's what Mary-Sues are for, right?

[RDraconis]

*laughs* Yeah, I was bummed about the whole movie/musical mask. But it's a LOT harder for actors to show facial expressions and such with a full-face mask. And I was especially ticked when I saw that Erik had a real nose in the movie. It was basically impossible onstage, but now with all of the special effects coming out they should have made the Phantom look more gruesome. Erik is not a sex-god, really, seriously, people. So all of you phan gurls who are saying, "OMG! LYKE< ERICK IS SOOO FRIGIN" HAUWT!!! ND< ND LYKE I WUNT 2 KISS HIM NDLYKE STUF! YAH!!!" I must burst your bubble. Erik is NOT "hauwt" or "schmexy" in any way. Unless you think a fifty year-old virgin who stinks of death, has yellow eyes, rotting teeth, and the body of an undernourished five year-old is "hauwt." Correct me if anyone does.

And RDraconis, that's what Mary-Sues are for, right?

Man, I wouldn't wish a Mary-Sue on anyone... Especially not after this really bad Orlando Bloom/Artemis Fowl fic with the main character being a Mary-Sue who thought adding 'ola' to the end of words meant she was speaking spanish. *shudders* Mary-Sues are freeeaaaky.
Maybe not a Mary-Sue so much as a cat-girl that acts like a cat. The thing about kitties is that they're just as temperamental, and very affectionate when they want to be. ^_^ I think that'd be amusing....

Yeah, I think if they made Erik like he was Erik- the musical wouldn't have worked. For some idiot reason people can't mesh perfect music with ugly, especially not for musicals.
And I don't think Erik's hot, but I do find him adorable. I'm just weird like that... ^^;

[Wandering_Child]

Man, I wouldn't wish a Mary-Sue on anyone... Especially not after this really bad Orlando Bloom/Artemis Fowl fic with the main character being a Mary-Sue who thought adding 'ola' to the end of words meant she was speaking spanish. *shudders* Mary-Sues are freeeaaaky.
Maybe not a Mary-Sue so much as a cat-girl that acts like a cat. The thing about kitties is that they're just as temperamental, and very affectionate when they want to be. ^_^ I think that'd be amusing....

Yeah, I think if they made Erik like he was Erik- the musical wouldn't have worked. For some idiot reason people can't mesh perfect music with ugly, especially not for musicals.
And I don't think Erik's hot, but I do find him adorable. I'm just weird like that... ^^;

Would you like to help me kill Mary-Sues? I'm plotting with some people on POTO.com.

Kitties?

Personally, I love a good, well-written musical phanphiction, but there seem to be less and less, so I stick with Leroux. Usually the intelligent people are the ones who have taken the time to read Leroux and write delicious stories.

I think Gerard Butler is actually very attractive. Yes. I will admit that. Musical Erik is not as "hauwt" in the body as he is in his...mental (? not right word)...attitude? *laughs* Can't explain myself right now...and I love Leroux!Erik simply because he is totally insane and creepy.

[emilysweety]

Raoul thought Chritstine was a "Gawkish"(pardon my spelling) girl, but she isn't a "gawkish" girl any more, maybe it surprised Raoul, so he fell in love with her.

[Wandering_Child]

Raoul thought Chritstine was a "Gawkish"(pardon my spelling) girl, but she isn't a "gawkish" girl any more, maybe it surprised Raoul, so he fell in love with her.

Yeah...uh...we know that.

Christine and Raoul were childhood sweethearts, remember, so of course they were inclined to have some sort of affection for each other once they saw each other again. And as things lea up to one another they ended up falling in love. A classic move. *le sigh*

[paledancer]

I think Christine had some kind of affection for Eric, but not love. an admiration, actually. he was teaching her, without showing himself and Christine thought he was an angel who also protected her. considering these, it seems impossible for her not to feel something for him. She has great feelings, true but she is also afraid. You can't observe this kind of fear in love. She is like a little girl who admires and wants to please a god.
Besides, all of these feelings, this admiration have been almost destroyed more and more. She saw the ugly side of him physically and psychologically. She had known him for years (sort of knowing) and then suddenly everything is destroyed, she realizes that he is not a god, not a totally graceful, hymn being, that he is just a human. Hurt, humiliated but still a man. this is where she starts to fear deathly.
On the other hand, Raoul has always been in her heart, we can see this: she gets upset when Raoul first shows up and doesn't recognize her. It doesn't mean she doesn't love him just because she doesn't tear herself of love. This is not Romeo&Juliet she has other issues to deal. Think about yourselves. Would showing love, showing affection be the most important thing when you are dealing with a problem like hers? especially if showing this love is so dangerous under the circumstances. she told Raoul she loved him, and look what happened: Eric has gone madder.
Eric was an important part of her life, he inspired her voice,right. and all she wanted was to be happy with Raoul without losing him just like a daughter whıo wants to be with someone and to have her father's permission about it.

[Wandering_Child]

I think Christine had some kind of affection for Eric, but not love. an admiration, actually. he was teaching her, without showing himself and Christine thought he was an angel who also protected her. considering these, it seems impossible for her not to feel something for him. She has great feelings, true but she is also afraid. You can't observe this kind of fear in love. She is like a little girl who admires and wants to please a god.
Besides, all of these feelings, this admiration have been almost destroyed more and more. She saw the ugly side of him physically and psychologically. She had known him for years (sort of knowing) and then suddenly everything is destroyed, she realizes that he is not a god, not a totally graceful, hymn being, that he is just a human. Hurt, humiliated but still a man. this is where she starts to fear deathly.
On the other hand, Raoul has always been in her heart, we can see this: she gets upset when Raoul first shows up and doesn't recognize her. It doesn't mean she doesn't love him just because she doesn't tear herself of love. This is not Romeo&Juliet she has other issues to deal. Think about yourselves. Would showing love, showing affection be the most important thing when you are dealing with a problem like hers? especially if showing this love is so dangerous under the circumstances. she told Raoul she loved him, and look what happened: Eric has gone madder.
Eric was an important part of her life, he inspired her voice,right. and all she wanted was to be happy with Raoul without losing him just like a daughter whıo wants to be with someone and to have her father's permission about it.

It's EriK And that was beautifully put!

[emilysweety]

I don't think Christine should have stayed with Erik instead of Raoul, because that's Christine's choice, not my. And Christine is way older than me, so i can't judge that. But, if I was Christine I would have chosen Erik. Because Erik is way hotter than Raoul, and he's a genius, he's a composer, an architect, a designer, etc. Most importantly, he loves me very much. I don't care how does he look like, i love him...

[Wandering_Child]

I don't think Christine should have stayed with Erik instead of Raoul, because that's Christine's choice, not my. And Christine is way older than me, so i can't judge that. But, if I was Christine I would have chosen Erik. Because Erik is way hotter than Raoul, and he's a genius, he's a composer, an architect, a designer, etc. Most importantly, he loves me very much. I don't care how does he look like, i love him...

Your opinions are based entirely off of the '04 movie. I actually think Patrick Wilson is very attractive. And speaking of him, what about Raoul? He also loves Christine very much. Erik's love was an obsessive, possessive kind of love. I would be frightened out of my wits if someone stalked me for three months, drugged me, kidnapped me, and then forced me to marry him.

Yes, Erik was all of those things. But Raoul had been in the navy and such. That counts, right?

[Phangirl7]

Wandering_Child, I actually agree with you on a lot of that. Although I really don't think that Erik is a fop. That's just how the movie people made him look. (God, I keep wanting to call him Gerard for some weird reason. Maybe since I first saw the '04 movie, I've had this insane crush on Gerry Butler.)
P.G.7.
P.S. I'm also Phangirl7 on POTO.com. It's nice to know there's other Phantom Phans on more than one site.

[MissScarlett]

o.o;; um... Not me. First of all- "stone with grapes"?! Notice the word 'stone'? It means you throw rocks at the person to kill them. Grapes would be annoying, possibly messy, but not dangerous.
Also, the kiss in front of Erik- do you mean the rooftop? HE WAS SPYING ON THEM! It's what you get for eavesdropping and invading someone's privacy. And at the end, the song was, in a way, a symbol. "Say you'll marry me and love me forever". Erik & Raoul sing it to Christine, but she only sings it to Raoul. It basically symbolizes that they love each other and plan to get married; and that Erik loves her- but she doesn't love him at least not that way. (although in the movie- She definitely lusted after Erik, even if she didn't really love him.)

I haven't read every single post, so I apologize if I'm repeating what someone else has already pointed out.

I definitely think Christine should have married Raoul, and I've both read the book and seen the movie.

You're right, Erik was spying on them! Now, I felt bad for Erik, but clearly his grave misfortune had driven him mad. He wasn't fit for any woman to be with long term. He killed people, for heaven's sake!

I don't even think Christine lusted after Erik. She thought he might be the "angel of music" that her father had promised to send her. She felt an obligation to her father to see Erik, and she was fascinated with him to some degree, but lust and love, no.

Raoul truly loved Christine. He fought Erik in the cemetery for Christine and put his own life at risk. Erik was unstable, he was a broken man deserving of our sympathy, but he had nothing to offer a woman. Raoul had a life to offer Christine, a life to share. And apparently, he loved her for many, many years, as the ending of the film shows us. He was devoted to her. Perhaps Erik was, too, but in a very warped way. Raoul's love was not warped.

I would be frightened out of my wits if someone stalked me for three months, drugged me, kidnapped me, and then forced me to marry him.

I agree. That's what I mean by Erik's love being very warped.

And I also agree. Patrick Wilson as Raoul was very, very attractive, and he showed no signs of being spoiled at all.

[BienvenuJDC]

I am looking forward to reading this thread and commenting. Erik is such an interesting character, although he is a monster of sorts, there is something more inside.