Images of Heaven and Hell

[mtpspur]

I find it ironic to discuss Heaven and Hell but not allowed to refer to the Bible in the discussion. So with the foundation taken away fantasy and idle thoughts take sway.

I'm a person of little imagination of my own which is why I read the stories of others in the first place. Heaven will be a place where SOME people I care about will share quality time not lip service with me. In my secret dreams a little dog Tippy (from over 40 years ago waits for me with his unconditional love).

Hell on the other hand is living with snakes always lunging at me--sometimes striking and and the only food is cucumbers in potato salad with applesauce for desert.

Like I said little imagination but highly personalized.

Rich (but I'm really poor)--first spoken to a AAA club seeking to asign or pass the buck on why a tow went very very wrong. (Also known by the Columbus OH AAA as THAT GUY.

[dramasnot6]

Interesting question there. Well, i would feel untrue to my own thoughts of an ideal life, or heaven, and the worst possible life, or hell. To most everyone these two concepts come with contrasting connotations, black and white. But for me an ideal anything would consist of a mix of both positive and negative. There have been times where i have felt the extreme of both ends and realize it takes experience in the other to even realize one exists. Eye of the beholder applies to this question on two levels. One, what is ideal to specific to each individual as our own experience shapes our belief. And two, we can only identify something as heavenly by relating to something hellish. For example, if someone asks you how you are finding your sandwhich and you say "it's good" and then they ask you why. You then reply "its fresh and filling", you can then ask what defines it to be that way, and so on.Eventually they will have to tell you its only that way because its relative to having a unsatisfying, rotten sandwhich. If i were to be in heaven i wouldnt appreciate its perfection because id have nothing to compare it to. Also, i dont believe in the afterlife so ive never really thought of it.

[Miss Darcy]

Goodness! This thread is still alive?!

Happy to hear that someone can find in it some inspiration to philosophise. Lovely ideas, Drama, I thoroughly agree with you. Heaven itself could not really be perfect, after all, without some imperfection.

[Pendragon]

I read with interest my friend mtspur's post. I don't know why people imagine that an animal capable of love, who would give its life to save yours in a second, would not be considered worthy of heaven. Jesus said "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." St, John 15:13. If love is the great key to heaven, why would a special pet be denied? You may say there are no animals in heaven. Then where did the horses and chariot God set to pick up Elijah come from, would you explain?
__________________

[dramasnot6]

Goodness! This thread is still alive?!

Happy to hear that someone can find in it some inspiration to philosophise. Lovely ideas, Drama, I thoroughly agree with you. Heaven itself could not really be perfect, after all, without some imperfection.

Thank you Miss Darcy! Wow, you summarized my entire rant in 12 words.I have to work on that

[fisherofmen]

I have to wonder...

First off, our senses (hearing, sight, touch, smell, taste) are all associated with our flesh/human bodies... our ears let us hear, our eyes see, hands touch, nose smells, tongue tastes... I'm sure thats nothing new.

However, when we die won't our human bodies gets left behind? (and as a result, our 5 senses too?)
Just our soul goes to heaven, right?
I suppose what I'm getting at... If just our soul goes to heaven (and our bodies left behind) then perhaps heaven has a different set of senses. Or maybe just one.
For example, maybe the only sense in heaven is "love", or something like that that we are only dimly aware of or can't fully understand while still here on earth... so things like music, art, etc, that is beautiful to us on earth would not exist like so in heaven, but in an entirely different way that reaches us through a different "sense".


I kinda went out on a limb there, and would like to hear other people's thoughts on the matter. (not sure if that all made sense anyways, but i tried)

[mtpspur]

Ah Pendragon a friend indeed. It had never occured to me that horses in Heaven imply other creatures. I usually wonder about all the babies in Heaven if God ages them up or not as far as I get. Iwish I looked more forward to seeing the Lord Christ. For the first time ever I have hopes to see Tippy. He was a collie puppy down the street where I lived who would follow me on the afternoon paper route I ran and sit in the yard and always wait for me to come out. He was more my dog then the young married couple who owned him. My mother was a cat person never a dog person which my wife is. The neighbor wife never seemed to mind me and Tippy spending hours together--they both worked and Tippy and I bonded--then my parents did another of their frequent bored now let's move again and try fitting in another school class when 9th grade is almost over. Visited about a month later and Tippy had lost weight and heard from friends later that he ran away from home. To this day I think he was looking for me. Tragic for a 15 year old now the stuff of myth and dreams and hopes. There are reasons the long suffering wife comes behind the pets occasionally.

[Pendragon]

I have to wonder...

First off, our senses (hearing, sight, touch, smell, taste) are all associated with our flesh/human bodies... our ears let us hear, our eyes see, hands touch, nose smells, tongue tastes... I'm sure thats nothing new.

However, when we die won't our human bodies gets left behind? (and as a result, our 5 senses too?)
Just our soul goes to heaven, right?
I suppose what I'm getting at... If just our soul goes to heaven (and our bodies left behind) then perhaps heaven has a different set of senses. Or maybe just one.
For example, maybe the only sense in heaven is "love", or something like that that we are only dimly aware of or can't fully understand while still here on earth... so things like music, art, etc, that is beautiful to us on earth would not exist like so in heaven, but in an entirely different way that reaches us through a different "sense".


I kinda went out on a limb there, and would like to hear other people's thoughts on the matter. (not sure if that all made sense anyways, but i tried)

Not exactly. Paul speaks of this earthly tabernacle (our body) being dissolved, but a new one, eternal waiting in the heavens. A soul floating around bodiless would have no need of the mansions Jesus spoke of. Eternal life is LIFE in a perfect body that never grows old, sick, or has need to cry, for there is no more sorrow. Mtspur, it is my belief that all will be one age in heaven, just at the prime of life in the bloom of youthful adulthood. Never age but be perfect from that as man was in the garden. And yes, I think we should long to see the one who is responsible for our salvation most of all, but we will have eternity to enjoy a new heaven and a new earth.

[fisherofmen]

Not exactly. Paul speaks of this earthly tabernacle (our body) being dissolved, but a new one, eternal waiting in the heavens. A soul floating around bodiless would have no need of the mansions Jesus spoke of. Eternal life is LIFE in a perfect body that never grows old, sick, or has need to cry, for there is no more sorrow. Mtspur, it is my belief that all will be one age in heaven, just at the prime of life in the bloom of youthful adulthood. Never age but be perfect from that as man was in the garden. And yes, I think we should long to see the one who is responsible for our salvation most of all, but we will have eternity to enjoy a new heaven and a new earth.

so yes, our earthly body being dissolved... do you think the new perfect one will reflect the images of our body here on earth? thats one thing im curious about...

[byquist]

If your mean visual artistic images, two interesting groups of lithographs are:

William Blake's with all the angels, men and women, etc., even God maybe.

and

Francisco Goya's darker images, life on earth, but haunted by gouls and goblins, etc.

[alhara]

hell is loseing your sould dying and theres nothing(food for worms) and heaven,...heavan is anything else.(said in quite desperation)

[Virgil]

Ah Pendragon a friend indeed. It had never occured to me that horses in Heaven imply other creatures. I usually wonder about all the babies in Heaven if God ages them up or not as far as I get. Iwish I looked more forward to seeing the Lord Christ. For the first time ever I have hopes to see Tippy. He was a collie puppy down the street where I lived who would follow me on the afternoon paper route I ran and sit in the yard and always wait for me to come out. He was more my dog then the young married couple who owned him. My mother was a cat person never a dog person which my wife is. The neighbor wife never seemed to mind me and Tippy spending hours together--they both worked and Tippy and I bonded--then my parents did another of their frequent bored now let's move again and try fitting in another school class when 9th grade is almost over. Visited about a month later and Tippy had lost weight and heard from friends later that he ran away from home. To this day I think he was looking for me. Tragic for a 15 year old now the stuff of myth and dreams and hopes. There are reasons the long suffering wife comes behind the pets occasionally.

As a dog lover, I think that was quite touching. I hope someday I can see my Sasha, my golden retriever, who's with me in my photo picture in the photo album thread.

[Pendragon]

so yes, our earthly body being dissolved... do you think the new perfect one will reflect the images of our body here on earth? thats one thing im curious about...

I Corinthians 13 "For we know in part and we do in part, but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away with ... now I know in part, but then I shall know even as I also am known." Job 19: 25-27 "For I know that my reedeemer liveth, and that he shall stand in the later day upon the earth: And though after the skin-worms destory this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reigns be consumed in me." In other words, yes, young, strong, but undoubtably us!

[mtpspur]

Virgil--Kudos to your Sasha. God is still good. The Lord giveth and taketh away--blessed be His name. Thank you for noticing. To Pendragon all I know for sure is that it will be a new body in Heaven and people will know each other so I guess their is no escaping my special beauty-sigh.

It's like I tell all the young cashiers at stores good looking gus are a dime a dozen it's the Barney Fifes everyone remembers forever. Esteem issues--who me??!!

[fisherofmen]

I Corinthians 13 "For we know in part and we do in part, but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away with ... now I know in part, but then I shall know even as I also am known." Job 19: 25-27 "For I know that my reedeemer liveth, and that he shall stand in the later day upon the earth: And though after the skin-worms destory this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another, though my reigns be consumed in me." In other words, yes, young, strong, but undoubtably us!

Excellent verses man. I'm gonna have to save those.
I'll have to look into it more before posting