Shop Talk, My Short Story

[Virgil]

You're welcome for the vote, Virgil. I did that because I was incredibly impressed with the story. I thought that it was a brilliant portrayal of one of the myriad variations of human emotion.

I liked the opening scene very much. I appreciated the stilted nature of the description.

The transition into the second half of the story was very well executed. There is such a realistic change of mood, not only for the early characters, but a palpable one for the characters in the breakroom as well. The scene represented for me an ultimate clashing of two very distinct sets of emotion.

The motivations of this character, Baldini, are very well developed, although this development comes to fruition only at the end of the story. This, however, does not lend itself to any sort of detriment.

Listen, Virgil, I'll end there because this is running the risk of turning into a tirade of picking out every bit of this story and affirming my appreciation for it. I know that it's not very helpful to say that I simply liked it--all of it--but I can't find anything that I would suggest changing.

In any case, thanks for sharing your story with us. Again, I was very impressed.

Thank you so much Jean. You have made my day!!!! It nice to find someone who appreciated it. I am now all smiles.

[ShoutGrace]

They lack verbs and here it was done intentionally. I don't find it problematic. It was the style I was after.

These are the kinds of things I can't discern, and it's good that you're explaining them.

You think that's a dangling modifier? I feels like "gives" refers to to footsteps and "it" refers to space. We probably need an expert here to resolve this. I'll ask Petrarch.

Alright, but you've confused me here:

BTW, should the above sentence have a “them” in place of your “it?” There are multiple footsteps, not just one.

Yes, I think you're right here.

Which one is it?

You are definitely correct here. All tenses should have been in present. It's easy to slip up. I'm not good at editing. Actually I asked two others to look over the grammar and they both missed those.

Well, I'm considering editing positions for a base salary of $50,000 a year, if you're interested. Then you can have my outstanding clerical skills on hand for all your short story needs.

That was not the climax of the entire story, just the initial conflict. The climax, if i got it correctly done, was feeling of the loss of his mother at the end.

I fear I may be an inapt short story reader.

Why was the introduction of the first two characters so detailed and complex (as compared to Baldini's part)? I'm going to re-read it again from this perspective, but what does 70% of the story have to do with the final line? So much of it seemed to be concerned with the first two fellows, and their involvement with the plot.

Don't tell me if it's something that I might get the 3rd time around, I guess.

The fact that someone as competent as Jean-Baptiste is enamored with it makes me doubt that I'm reading it correctly. I'll think about it for a little while this time, and then comment more on the elements, rather than the mechanical side.

[Petrarch's Love]

The footsteps are not “giving” an echo, there isn't any “gave,” they “give” an echo here. There were a couple of times in the story when the tense wasn’t maintained, but I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not.

You think that's a dangling modifier? I feels like "gives" refers to to footsteps and "it" refers to space. We probably need an expert here to resolve this. I'll ask Petrarch.

BTW, should the above sentence have a “them” in place of your “it?” There are multiple footsteps, not just one.

Yes, I think you're right here.

Ack, no, don't change that "it." I don't think Virg. is neccesarily dangling any modifiers here. Here's the sentence in question again:

The volume of the space alters the sound of the footsteps, gives it a slight echo.

To bring it down to bare bones, the subject of the main clause (and the implied subject of the subordinate clause) is "volume," the verb is "alters" and the object is "sound." Thus Virg. had good parallel instincts when he referred back to "the sound" as a singular "it" in the subordinate clause.

If this were in the more formal context of one of my students' papers I would probably suggest a change to the participle form of the verb ("The volume of the space alters the sound of the footsteps, giving it a slight echo), or insert a conjunction between the two clauses so that it would read ("The volume of the space alters the sound of the footsteps and gives it a slight echo." Either of these would lend greater technical clarity to the sentence. In the context of a creative work, however, I think this reads just fine.

[Virgil]

Thanks Petrarch.

[RobinHood3000]

Hey, Virg -- I'll edit yours if you edit mine.

“Hey, have you seen Baldini,” he yells out. The operator is oblivious to anyone talking to him, his eyes fixed up at the crane. He is aiming the crane to be centered over the milling machine. Moss steps toward him and waves his arm to get his attention. “Yo. Hey yo.” The operator’s eyes catches Moss, acknowledges him with a head nod, and raises his index finger from his right hand as a sign he needs another minute.

On a grammar point, I feel like the "Hey, have you seen..." dialogue needs a question mark. Might just be me, but that's the inflection I heard in my head. Similarly, "Hey yo" might work better with a comma between the two words.

Within seconds Baldini enters the break room, adjusting his fly as he comes through the doorway. He is a tall, stocky man wearing worn jeans and a soiled polo shirt that appears a half size too small.

One of the things that struck a slightly off chord with me was the sheer number of sentences with passive voice and/or linking verbs, although I'm probably just channeling my English professor. This is a good example -- it seems to me like the second sentence could be integrated into the first as an appositive, stuck in right after the introduction of Baldini and separated by commas.

“No,” yells O’Brien trying to pull back Baldini’s large body.

Last thing, I swear. If he's yelling, why not an exclamation point?

Overall, I liked your story. I don't really mind the choppiness -- it could be a bit smoother, sure, but I'm occasionally partial to keeping things short and simple. There's a couple grammar tweaks that would be nice here and there, but you certainly don't need me to fix those. Overall, nice work. I'm impressed, by your distinct style and your concept.

[Virgil]

Hey, Virg -- I'll edit yours if you edit mine.

Sure Robin. But I won't get to yours until after the weekend, if you don't mind.

On a grammar point, I feel like the "Hey, have you seen..." dialogue needs a question mark. Might just be me, but that's the inflection I heard in my head...

Last thing, I swear. If he's yelling, why not an exclamation point?

I combined those two quotes because they are similar in nature. It's how does one handle the punctuation inside the dialogue when the sentence continues. Yes, the first has a question inflection and the second is an exclamation. I frankly am not sure how to handle that. Wouldn't you have double punctuation for that sentence if one put a question mark and exclamation mark and then ended the sentence with a period? Perhaps someone can help here. If not, I'll look it up.

One of the things that struck a slightly off chord with me was the sheer number of sentences with passive voice and/or linking verbs, although I'm probably just channeling my English professor. This is a good example -- it seems to me like the second sentence could be integrated into the first as an appositive, stuck in right after the introduction of Baldini and separated by commas.

I was after a particular style. Closer to the thought structure of the central character.

Overall, I liked your story.

Thank you.

[RobinHood3000]

As I understand it, the American way of doing in-quote punctuation is as follows:

Quotations that would normally end in a period but are not the end of the sentence have a comma. For example:

"Virgil is an excellent writer," said most of the forumers.

In contrast, if it IS the end of the sentence, it ends with a period, as it should.

At least four of the forumers said, "Virgil is an excellent writer."

If the quotation is split, it goes comma first, appropriate punctuation last.

"Virgil," said most of the forumers, "is an excellent writer."

Question marks and exclamation points, in my understanding (someone better versed in grammar may feel free to correct me) are never replaced, regardless of their position.

"Is Virgil an excellent writer?" asked the new member.

"YES, HE IS!" replied the forumers.

These, of course, are all for quotes that are complete thoughts. If you want to have a quotation trail off or be interrupted, you can use an ellipsis "..." or an em dash "--" as necessary. Keep in mind, this is the American precedent. In Britain, the correct punctuation mark for the sentence as a whole, regardless of the contents of the quotation, is added outside the quotation marks in addition to any punctuation inside the quotation marks.

[Virgil]

Thanks Robin. So I need to correct the punctuation you pointed out. I hope Petrarch stops by here and comments on this. She would be the expert.

[Laindessiel]

As I understand it, the American way of doing in-quote punctuation is as follows:

Quotations that would normally end in a period but are not the end of the sentence have a comma. For example:


In contrast, if it IS the end of the sentence, it ends with a period, as it should.



If the quotation is split, it goes comma first, appropriate punctuation last.



Question marks and exclamation points, in my understanding (someone better versed in grammar may feel free to correct me) are never replaced, regardless of their position.



These, of course, are all for quotes that are complete thoughts. If you want to have a quotation trail off or be interrupted, you can use an ellipsis "..." or an em dash "--" as necessary. Keep in mind, this is the American precedent. In Britain, the correct punctuation mark for the sentence as a whole, regardless of the contents of the quotation, is added outside the quotation marks in addition to any punctuation inside the quotation marks.

You completed my intended summary regarding the topic for my lil' sis, Rob, thanks. I, too, am very concerned and very particular with punctuations and and punctuations inside quotations and these I will gladly pass on to my sisters, which they crave to learn about. In writing, for me, everything should be flawless to read or I easily get distracted and then cannot help myself but to comment on the mistakes and correct them. I am my sisters' editor when they write stories.

I suppose I could comment on Uncle Virgil's story, but I have yet to read it. (I'll read it, Uncle Virg, I swear. Just have to make time for it. ) Although I feel the way that Shoutgrace does; that I am not qualified to comment and criticize any professional's work. And I reckon everything's been covered already, but I'll try and say my view on the story. And anyway, Uncle Virg said that " I welcome all comments, no matter what their qualification."

[Virgil]

Laindwessiel, I'm not a professional. I was only teasing Shoutgrace. Even he was tongue in cheek. He was referring to our dispute on Shakespeare's Ghost thread.

[SleepyWitch]

hey Virg, I read your story..
I think I'll have to read it again, though to give you feedback...
I liked your description of the setting and the character's appearance, as well as his mental dialogue with his father
But I didn't quite get what it is that Baldini did to Moss's cylinder (probably that's my own fault because I don't know the first thing about mechanics (?) and couldn't be bothered to look it up) and what all of this has got to do with his mother....

Pop, I was eight before mom died and we were on that road trip to Cooperstown and we had to pee and you pulled over on the side of the road and you taught me to go in the woods, why was mom upset when we got back to the car?
I don’t know son. I don’t know.

did i miss anything important about the psychology of peeing? Sorry if I'm being even thicker than usual WHY was his mom upset? Does it have anything to do with the story? :???:

[Virgil]

hey Virg, I read your story..
I think I'll have to read it again, though to give you feedback...
I liked your description of the setting and the character's appearance, as well as his mental dialogue with his father
But I didn't quite get what it is that Baldini did to Moss's cylinder (probably that's my own fault because I don't know the first thing about mechanics (?) and couldn't be bothered to look it up) and what all of this has got to do with his mother....

Hey thanks for reading it Sleepy. The specifics of what he did aren't that important. He screwed it up is what is really important. He machined it to the wrong dimension.

did i miss anything important about the psychology of peeing? Sorry if I'm being even thicker than usual WHY was his mom upset? Does it have anything to do with the story? :???:

Yes this is critical to the story. The point I hoped the story was asking was why is Baldiini the way he is. And the answer to that hopefully subtly implied was the lack of the feminine in his upbringing. He has lived in a completely massculine world from the death of his mother. That final scene I hoped would carry that significance in a dramatic event, a masculine experience of stopping to urinate and the critical reaction, that will be lacking in Baldini's future, from his mother. I hate to explain a story to death like this. It should be a story. But you were so good with discussing your story, I feel I should be as open with mine. But frankly a story should hold up as a story (a weird character with some emotional problems) without all that explanation.

[SleepyWitch]

I hate to explain a story to death like this. It should be a story. But you were so good with discussing your story, I feel I should be as open with mine. But frankly a story should hold up as a story (a weird character with some emotional problems) without all that explanation.

yep, it should..
hum, I think it was the peeing business that confused me... it made my little brain cell look for some horrid Freudian meaning behind his behaviour.

The point I hoped the story was asking was why is Baldiini the way he is. And the answer to that hopefully subtly implied was the lack of the feminine in his upbringing. He has lived in a completely massculine world from the death of his mother.

ok.. I got that the first time round, so you've managed to bring across your point But I agree with the others that the scene where he cuts off Moss's tie could be more detailed.
Maybe Moss and the other guy could talk about Baldini a bit more on their way to the place where he works? To give the reader a better impression of "the way he is"??? If I remember correctly they do curse about him and talk about the cylinder but they could make some more general comments about what he's like to illustrate that he often behaves this way and is widely known as a rough guy?

[Virgil]

OK, thanks. I was limited to 2000 words. I was close to that.

[SleepyWitch]

heehee, don't be grumpy our Virgil. I didn't mean to say "you should have done this and that". I'm very aware of the 2,000 words limit. I meant, if you want to make some changes to your story (after those 6 months you mentioned) then you could....