If you ask, where did God come from; I ask you, where did the first atom come from to have the big bang.
If you ask, where did God come from; I ask you, where did the first atom come from to have the big bang.
Hello, pqb57, welcome to the forum.Originally Posted by pqb57
I feel we could twist and turn this argument until we both lose our breath (or until our hands tire from typing). This simply seems a question of beliefs; no member of humankind witnessed the theory of the Big Bang, and, if Something/Someone did witness and/or create it, He/She/It has also provided no more proof other than allegedly inspiring multiple religious texts.
The theory states, however, that everything came to existence at once (hence the 'Big Bang'), including atoms and various molecules. Though even atoms have an age (some 10^30 years, give or take), how they came into existence, and when, I have no idea, but call it more a matter of individual beliefs.
...well, if you had just ONE more sense, what would it be? Can you even imagine it? And don't include that notorious "sixth sense" of intuition which is merely a compilation of multiple inputs via the other five senses.
Can you prove Love to exist?
I'm relatively sure there isn't proof for Love i.e. objective/empirical standards but I'd bet most people believe they have either felt it or desire to feel it.
But that sixth sense....you see, we are so limited that we cannot even imagine what that might be. But I'll accept any reasonable suggestion if anyone can come up with one.
My point is this: we are rudimentary beings. Very, very limited.
*Maslow's....well, the Quran goes into much detail not only about the developmental process of the embryo to fetus, but also the life span of the human, the cycle of religious evolution that we are caught in regardless of whether we choose to believe in a Creator or not (God will always be an issue you see! and we cannot 'uninvent' him which contradicts the logic of having 'invented' God according to a Wittgensteinian paradigm of negation needing to make sense in both directions).
I am an atheist, so I believe our freakishly large frontal lobes created God (unwittingly).
I find something by evolutionary psychologist / cognitive scientist Steven Pinker useful when discussing questions of this magnitude:
"Our minds evolved by natural selection to solve problems that were life-and-death matters to our ancestors, not to commune with correctness or to answer any question we are capable of asking', argues Steven Pinker. 'We cannot hold ten thousand words in our short-term memory. We cannot see ultra-violet light. We cannot mentally rotate an object in the fourth dimension. And perhaps we cannot solve conundrums like free will and sentience."
So I wonder too, if I've lived this particular life before...thanks to Deja Vu and a bad drug trip experience.
I do believe:
If there is a God, it's perfectly explainable that God existed FOREVER and will exist FOREVER. Infinity exists...thus true infinity has no beginning or end. God doesn't need to be created. God just is. It's explainable in its inexplicability...just broaden your mind.
Secondly:
I sometimes feel like time and space have no bounds. For each person, time is different. Think of the phrases "Time flies when you're having fun" or "This is taking forever." Really think about them. Time, supposedly is proceding at the same rate...but yet it varies from person to person.
Thirdly: (Just a thought...)
Our lives...could very possibly be part of a bigger picture, like a loop, or a sphere, where we are every aspect of that sphere. We can experience anything, feel anything, be anything, do anything. We are part of eachother, of the sky, of God. Thus infinity is explainable in an endless loop of sorts. There's a lot more to this theory that's in my mind, but I'm too tired to talk about it right now...lol.
In any case...Life is about Love.
The first atom? Are you telling me there was a void before the first atom? Amazing how nothing evolved into an atom.
0+0=0, 0*0=0, 0/0=0, 0-0=0
It all comes down to having faith in what you believe.
Last edited by haxan64; 11-03-2006 at 03:46 PM.
I belive that there something missing in our thoughts about god. its that we talking about god, not a creature a mong us. but we talking about who creat our laws and he the only one who has the ability to break our laws and live with his own laws.
life nothing but short road.
well..i think i am jumping in the discussion rather late...(i have skimmed throuhg the thread..thoug)...it seems that the discussion has almost reached the point where such discussions usually reach......i mean where participants,more often than not, depart with "no conclusion" at all..except for that "i knew they wont unnerstan"
anyhow..i have long been a victim to the question of life and death..and have concluded that "this question cannot be solved"...the only possibilty is that, before their "extinction", men may reach a point where they decide that "no more of these troublesome thoughts...go do something more constructive"..after all we must admit that much greater minds have not been able to answer the fundamental question of "where it all came from??""..and yet despair for me!!!
P.S....just another thing, which does not have anything to do with the present discussion...someone wrote 0/0 = 0..above..and i cannot help correcting just because of some partiality towards maths..0/0 is not 0..it is defined to be "undefined")))
Last edited by kimrankamil; 11-29-2006 at 11:01 AM.
The five senses are a social construct. I can, off the top of my head, think of at least two more: proprioception (the feeling of your body in space) and balance. Or you could, if you wanted, limit it to one sense: the sense of information coming into your brain.
If you can define it, I can give it a shot.
'Rudimentary' implies that there is a finished form that we are working towards.
What is the use of a violent kind of delightfulness if there is no pleasure in not getting tired of it.
- Gertrude Stein
A washerwoman with her basket; a rook; a red-hot poker; th purples and grey-greens of flowers: some common feeling which held the whole together.
- Virginia Woolf
God could not have been created or it would not be God - infinite, eternal, unchanging etc. The question becomes fairly irrelevant compared with the much harder task of deciding on our relationship with that God and our relationship with eachother. In our daily life we might feel very distant from God; we might wonder why we get no message; we might feel abandoned in a lonely place. Pretty normal for most believers. We might feel for longer or shorter periods of time close to God; we might get epiphanies of understanding; we might feel part of a greater whole. Fairly frequent for many believers. We have to be careful that what we are grasping at is not just the wishful thinking of our own insecurities. For whatever God is, though his kingdom might well be within us, we cannot bend him to our wills. Many awful things happen to us and our societies when we try to do that. The great poet William Cowper produced some of his best work from a state of spiritual crisis. Other great poets have struggled with this and resolved it too. Dugald Buchanan for one.
The object of First Cause is to find a power mover on the move.
Since everything that is in motion must be moved by something, let us suppose there is a thing in motion which was moved by something else in motion, and that by something else, and so on. but this series cannot go on to infinity, so there must be some first mover.
- Aristotle, Physics
“As Kingfishers catch fire, dragonflies draw flame . . .”
Why disqualify the rush? I'm tabled. I'm tabled.
interesting.
so, i've actually discussed this with my friends before, and i've reached the same conclusion: it all depends on what you're willing to accept. i mean, i believe in god, because of the things i see around me...more specifically, the stars. whenever i look up i just have this sense of...well, i dunno...not exactly insignificance, but it's just this feeling that there's something out there (and no, not aliens, though they are pretty cool, too
what i compare the existense of god to is writing. i write in my free time, and after reading the book Sophie's World (which is SPECTACULAR, i must say) and i got to thinking...
anyway, well, i compare God to this author, and we are his characters. i mean, when we finish a book, where do the characters go? well, they're still in our minds, yes? sort of the same deal with God. it's like, the reason there's no "physical" evidence of his exsistence doesn't mean he doesn't exist. i mean, what if WE were the ones who were just a figment of imagination? i've tried thinking it out, and it's just crazy. what if WE were the ones who didn't really exist? what if WE were the ones who were just an idea living in God's mind? i mean, how do you "physically" prove a thought or an idea?
just something to think about...
The god Zeus was (or is for that matter) the son of Zeus and Rhea (both gods themselves) and among his many offspring ere the gods Apollo and Aphrodite.
Many Roman emperors were deified after their deaths.
So you see there is a precedent of gods being created.
As far as the question of where did the first atom come from I think it is not a matter of belief at all; that would be to turn a purely scientific question into a religious one just because there isnt a theory to explain it yet or if there is it may be beyond our grasp (as non phycisists). In fact in my opinion it doesnt make sense to talk about belief in what regards scientific theories, you may agree with them or not but it doesnt mean anything not to believe in them. You may say "I dont agree with Maxwell's equations, i dont think they describe the nature of electromagnetism accurately" but to say "I dont believe in modern electromagnetic theory", in my opinion, and bear in mind im not trying to offend anyone, is absurd.
Besides maybe in ancient times someone said "if you ask where did Zeus come from? i ask you who wields the thunderbolt?"
Hopefully someday we´ll know where the first atom came from.
"Hopefully someday we´ll know where the first atom came from."
But, for now, God's keeping it a secret
Voices mysterious far and near,
Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
Are calling and whispering in my ear,
Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?
Hormones.
As far as us being rudimentary beings, may i remind you that this rudimentary beings have created the system through which you are communicating with people half a world a way?
Other rudimentary beings:
J S Bach
W A Mozart
William Shakespeare
Augustin Cauchy
Claude Shannon
Max Planck
The list goes on....
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