Legism is wrong. There should be legislation against it.
Legism is wrong. There should be legislation against it.
.... so Romeo fell for and over Rosalind's nobbly kneecaps into the wandering thighs of Julliet, which were higher up in his estimation, after all,, again explains why we legit any type of love. I still cannot pin down 'love', but a brace might help.
Art is art.
This thread is turning into a cross between Forrest Gump’s diary and a David Cronenberg film.
I really identify with Juliet and her love, her violent heart rending love for her Romeo. I have only ever been with two guys, one a forced marriage and the other was like Romeo to me. I am by nature very aloof with guys or I would be with one now. but in this instance it was just something that emotionally, physically and well I cannot describe it really.And we did go thru a similar thing, neither of us was acceptable to the other's family. period. His family does not even know my daughter exists.He died and it took a year for the pain in my heart to stop.
I think dear Romeo just knew of the 'formula' that he heard about of love which he tried to fit Rosalind in. those two would have made a terrible match for their passions were just so different, their emotional makeup did not fit like the proverbial hand in the exquisite glove.
And to me to die for that sort of love when all else is closed to you would be very natural. when others tell you you cannot love someone, when they preside as judge and jury over you and decide your destiny they murder your soul. period.
as the Prince of Verona said "all are punished."
Last edited by rachel; 03-17-2006 at 11:49 AM. Reason: grammar
i've never really known "love" - since i'm only 14 and go to an all-girls school and don't meet many guys - but i think that a lot of times people feel pressured to have a boy or girlfriend just becasue everyone else does, and they might fake it if they see someone who's just pretty. Romeo might have done that with Rosalind, and loved her simply becasue he thought she looked nice and he was very melodramatic so he could say it in lots of shiny phrases. : ) i think that there really was love between Romeo and Juliet because when you have dating - which isn't love, usually - both people are pretty shy and it goes kind of awkwardly; but there was none of theat between Romeo and Juliet; they could also talk to each other without feeling self-concious, and i think that only comes from true love - when you know the other person won't laugh at you becasue they love you, or even if they do you love them so much you wouldn't care anyways. if Romeo had really loved Rosalind, he would have gone to as great lengths to get her as he did with Juliet.
Originally Posted by mir
Yes, both Romeo's and Juliet's actions fit our understandings of love... So Rosalind was only a friend, or maybe more than a friend but less than 'the love' ?
Art is art.
yes - more than a friend; she was a crush; the sort of person you admire only for their looks. if Romeo had really ever spoken to her, he probably wouldn't have known what to say, because he would fear being turned down. with Juliet, he was very free about his speech; and this shows that he was willing to go to any lengths to win her, even risk being ridiculed for his love. i don't think he would have gone to such great lengths with her if she hadn't been so eloquent when they spoke. i think there's a different from someone on a pedestal - like Rosalind - and someone who you love and respect enough to never put them up on one in the first place.
and that explanation probably sucks. but . . .
Although I will agree that I don't think it was Shakespeare's message to blame suicide or R&J for committing suicide, I disagree with your rationale that it is society's/people's/the families' fault (poo-poo, they should be punished!) that R&J commit the act of killing themselves. And for me, this is the point where the play could potentially send a bad message to youth. The utlimate person to blame for killing oneself is the person committing the act. Yes, there are usually outside influences for the person leading up to the act of suicide, but it is a lame excuse to blame others for that act. When the youth are sent the message: "kill yourself and that will be your revenge against the cruel world or your horrible parents", I think it is destructive and untrue. The world goes on. The person who commits suicide doesn't win, they just die and loose the chance to better their situation and lead a happy life. Suicide doesn't bring peace; change in attitude and personality can more effectively bring about peace. Though I admit I am a sucker for romance even when suicide is involved (Romeo and Juliet, Sid and Nancy, etc.) I certainly wouldn't advocate for such actions.
my .02
"I have so often dreamed of you that you become unreal." ~ Robert Desnos
I don't think it was neither the message nor the point. They don't kill themselves to punish anyone, they just can't bear life if it means separation to them. Juliet was about to be married to Paris by force. And Romeo thought his beloved was dead. What happy life could be waiting in this situation?
Moreover I don't think anyone can possibly commit suicide only because he read that somewhere. People who do that aren't to blame. Pain is never to blame... And it is the choice of every human being to live or not. This may be hard to understand but some people just can't go through life but I don't think it is due to a play.
I lost one of my friends who committed suicide, and she didn't die for anything but pain, real pain. And I respect her decision, though I miss her. But it has nothing to do with exterior elements, such as a play.
Rachel my dear and sweet mum, I love you very much and admire your strength and kindness. Kisses and hugs with all my heart.
"What else is love but understanding and rejoicing in the fact that another person lives, acts, and experiences otherwise than we do…?"
oh lass if cap'n stan be seeing this displays of love he be throwin me overboard. but I will risk hugging ye back and kissin yer dear beautiful head. hugs, kisses-rachel
There is a room for this kind of thing you know! You know how it upsets some people. So hugs all round and let that be an end to it.
Well, I am still a teenager and I personally have never thought about love seriously myself. But the thing is that, love at first sight is quite possible but I believe that it is what this original crush goes on to be in the very end that really matters. Maybe at first, Romeo didn't really love Juliet at all (as in he did not appreciate her characters, just her looks) and it was just pure lust that made him say that he loves her. However, the point I have to disagree with Romiet is that in the end, Romeo was willing to return to Verona from Mantua despite knowing that he was banished and would certainly be killed if he returned. What can you call this? Is this not true love? I mean, the love that two people share can only be so deep as to certain extent and Romeo was willing to risk his life just to see Juliet once more in death, most of us aren't prepared to make such sacrifices. I know that I might sound rather foolish saying all this but I am just expressing an opinion.
If you're willing to risk everything for a bit of cocaine does that mean you and the drug share true love? I'm not saying their the same, but by the logic you used- it is.
Anyways, if he was obsessed with her- he would have done that not out of love but out of obsession. And Juliet was young, from what I could tell innocent and inexperienced. If she thought he loved her and she really liked him enough to call it love and he was willing to kill himself for her- she might feel that it was right to kill herself for him.
I don't mean actually thinking "he loves me enough to die for me, I should die for him" but just subconsciously. It's possible. I mean, women will stay with abusive men they have no real tie to because they think they love him and he loves her- there's no saying what love, real or believed, can cause.
And every time I wonder where the world went wrong,
End up lying on my face going ringy dingy ding dong
And every time I wonder if the world is right,
End up in some disco dancin all night & day.
we can`t say something strict about this, I mean how can we know that? but still it may be right, sounds logical actually but I think we would ruin it if we accept this. after all, waht makes the story so lovely is that their love is unique and eternal
Lovely? I'm sorry, but I don't see it. They fell in love over the course of three days, slept together, and died because of their foolishness and the foolishness of those around them. The full title is "The Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet" for a very specific reason.
Ahem...sorry, a bit cranky this morning, and of the firm opinion (channeling my Lit professor somewhat) that when Shakespeare makes people die, it's to indicate something went wrong. When that death is of their own accord, the fault usually lies with them.
Por una cabeza
Si ella me olvida
Qué importa perderme
Mil veces la vida
Para qué vivir
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