Post-Is Jesus really God?

[muhsin]

Greetings,
It's in this forum I'd asked a question as: is Jesus really god? Some weeks passed, but unfortunately ended up without a single satisfied answer that can convince me to do believe that yes he is or not.
Due to that aforesaid misfortune, I start looking for that answer myself and now came across some other biblical verses that lead me to sink into more mire.
Verses:
"Hear o Israel: the lord our God is one lord"(Deuteronomy 6:4)
"Why callest me good, there is only one good that is God"(mark 10:18)
"Worship the lord your God, and serve him only"(Mathew 4:10).
My question here is that: if he-jesus is a God, why did he say that we should serve only one Lord that is God? who is that one God? Didn't that seems as muslims' God-Allah?
What is your view my fellow sincere seeker of truth? Please lets share.

[papayahed]

Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity. 1 God but 3 seperate "beings" - God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are 3 parts that make up the one.

[rufioag]

Its not only catholics that believe in the trinity.

But besides this, You reference Mark 10:18. I think that maybe you have placed the wrong emphasis on the verse. Yes, Jesus was saying, only God is good, and in this phrase he is stating and alluding to his diety becuase the man had failed to see this, thinking of him only as a teacher or prophet.

I also wondered about this verse but its the fact that Jesus is saying that the man doesnt realize is diety. He says good teacher and Jesus's response is like, you call me good, but only God is good but you do not recognize who I am.

The point of Jesus’ reply, however, is not to draw attention to His deity, but to help the rich young ruler understand that in absoluteness, only God is good and that he can have much more with the Lord than legal obedience. He can have a relationship, “treasures in heaven” as it were (vv. 21).

This, however, can only come by the complete and full renunciation of one’s claim to piety, followed by a turning over of one’s life to God (cf. Phil 3:7-11). But, some people really want moral piety and money, not a relationship with the Lord (vv. 22-23). Thus, the rich young ruler was indeed guilty of covetousness, a violation of the last commandment (Ex 20:17; Mark refers to it as “defraud”; the overtones with money are apparent). The commandment “you shall not covet” is a commandment (like all of them) which stands in close relationship to the first commandment (i.e., You shall have no other gods before me). What Jesus tried to do with him was, rather than point out that he was coveting, he attempted to offer him something more attractive than that which he coveted; God instead of money. It is highly unlikely with the early church’s commitment to the sinlessness of Christ that this statement is implying as much (John 8:46; 2 Cor 5:21; Heb 7:26).

http://www.bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=6&qa_id=164

citation for references and quotes

[rufioag]

Also, i think i can answer some of your other questions.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is alluding to Jesus which becomes even more apparent later in John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This shows us, that Jesus was God. Now arguements have been made about the translation of Logos, but Ill agree with the translation that states that Logos represents Jesus in this instance. So, in fact, the trinity becomes aparant because Jesus is God. So by worshipping Jesus, we are worshiping only one God. I hope this helps a little bit.

[ThatIndividual]

LOL!

Of course not!!!

...that was an easy one...

[rufioag]

your evidence behind your opinion is extremly in depth. Lets just say that Jesus Christ fulfilled so many prophecies that its statistically impossible that he wasnt the Messiah. Secondly, Jesus Christ rose from the dead!!! And those who claim that this is just a myth, then look up 1st Corithians I think chapter 15 is included a hymn that was recited by early christians no more than 2 years after the cruxificion of Jesus Christ. If that was a myth, it would have been stomped out by the Jewish hierarchy but it wasnt! Paul persecuted 100s of Christians and then one day decieded to become an advocate of Christianity. Why?! Why would he do that?! Because he experienced and saw the resurrected Christ. But you say, no man can be returned to life after he dies. I know! You speak the truth, no man can return to life after he dies, but Christ was God! Praise Him and thank him! What a gift!

The amazing thing, that I really consider an amazing point about Jesus, was that many of the Jews of the time though the Messiah would come and triumph against the Roman Empire. If he wasnt the true Messiah, why wouldnt he use the peoples desire to obtain glory in an attempted overthrow of the Roman government? But that was not what he did. He died for our sins. The final sacrifice. And by no other can you come to heaven and eternal life.

[rufioag]

Muhsin, id also check out this link

http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims...claimshub.html

Nothing I can say, type, report can prove anything to anyone who has closed their minds to the possibility. I hope that you, as i did, delve into the facts behind Christianity and look towards sound claims with proof of evidence. The one thing im most tired of is that there are soo many claims behind the mythology of Christ, that if he did exist he was not God, and others but not one of these claims have factual evidence. But the claims of Christians to support their faith have man claims that extend to archeological record and non christian texts.

[Green Lady]

In my belief God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings. There's no one being pretending to be three beings. There is the confusion though of why Jesus switches between third and first person when teaching though. The answer to this is that because their beliefs are the same, Jesus and God are in fact the same person in their words and words alone. They are separate in body but same in mind.

[rufioag]

See I disagree on this fact becuase it would oppose everything that the Jews believed. The Jews believe in one God and the idea that anyone would start preaching of multiple gods would not follow the beliefs of the Jews. I dont think there is any evidence that explains your explanation Green Lady though I also, do not understand the trinity to its full extent and therefore cannot make an accurate case for my statements as well.

[Green Lady]

There is one God. I never said there's more than one.

[rufioag]

Please explain, you said they were seperate in body but not in mind. That phrase confused me because it sounded as if they are 3 seperate gods.

[Green Lady]

No, Jesus is the son of God. Technically, we're all sons and daughters of God, but let's not get into to that right now. I'm kind of bleary on the Holy Ghost though. I know that the Holy Ghost doesn't have a body but God and Jesus do. Okay, now don't get controversal with me after reading my last sentence. i know many don't believe in that God has a body, but I do. It only makes sense that if He wants us to do all these things, that He have done it Himself which includes having a body.

[Mililalil XXIV]

"Hear o Israel: the lord our God is one lord"(Deuteronomy 6:4)

The original Hebrew (reading from right to left):
שְׁמַע, יִשְׂרָאֵל: יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, יְהוָה אֶחָד.

The first word, [Shema'], addressed to many souls assembled as one to hear the Word of the LORD in Communal Unity, means "Hear!". This is followed by the name of that entity addressed: [Yisra`el].

Then is what they are to hear, in a four word sentence employing only three words in all (repeating one of them):

[YHWH `ELOHEYNU YHWH `echadh].

[YHWH] is the DIVINE NAME.

[`ELOHEYNU] is literally "our_`ELOHIYM". [`ELOHIYM] is a plural term that is given the English equivalent "GODS". Though many translate [`ELOHIYM] as "GOD" into English, where it refers to YHWH (in following a convention used in the earliest Greek translation of the Torah, render the chosen equivalent in the language targeted for translation into a singular form, to express the Unity of the DEITY, as expressed in Dt. 6:4), in all uses of the term for other than YHWH, it is always and naturally rendered "gods".

[`echadh] means "one", but in a way different from another Hebrew word that can be translated as "one": namely [yachiydh].

Let us look at how [yachiydh] is used in the Hebrew Scriptures:

Gen. 22:2
And He said: 'Take now thy son, thine only [son][אֶת-בִּנְךָ אֶת-יְחִידְךָ ]....'

The hebrew portion above is [`eth-binkha `eth-yachiydhkha]. [ben] (son) takes the pronominal suffix, [-kha], undergoing a vowel change thereby. [yachiydh] (only) likewise takes on [-kha]. The prefixed [`eth-] marks the direct object the verb acts upon.

[yachiydh] operates likewise in verses 12 and 16. Notice there are in this passage three Divine Utterances concerning Isaac as the only son. In this book, Cherubim are mentioned near the beginning, as guarding the way to the TREE OF LIFE, and, later than the Abrahamic passages, there may be the only reference to mere Angels by the term [Mal`akhey `ELOHIYM] (
מַלְאֲכֵי אֱלֹהִים ), in the passage about the Ladder to and from Heaven. In one passage [chapt.18], THREE PERSONS are identified as YHWH. TWO are seen to head toward Sodom in this Epiphany, and are operating as BRINGERS of the Message of YHWH, and, therefore, are called [SHENEY HAMMAL`AKHIYM] (
שְׁנֵי הַמַּלְאָכִים ). The term means first and foremost a bearer of a Royal Pronouncement, and does not necessitate thinking of the bearer as other than the source of the Message. The Heavenly Beings that are non-human creatures are not called such a term except as Heralds. Some are called Seraphim, some Cherubim. In the rest of Genesis, ONE called the ANGEL of YHWH is also identified as GOD HIMSELF. But in the Ladder to Heaven passage, the term used is not ANGEL of YHWH, but Angels of ELOHIM.

In the deliverance from Sodom passage describes TWO that were earlier simply called YHWH and `ADHONAY - both DIVINE NAMES - as YHWH acting on earth in concert with YHWH as out of Heaven. In Christianity, this peculiar reference is given a clear significance in that TWO of the THREE DIVINE PERSONS are sent from the FATHER in a special way:
JESUS, the second named in the Trinitarian Formula (The NAME of the FATHER and of the SON and of the HOLY SPIRIT), is sent in a localized Human Manifestation - or Humanity-clad SHEKHINAH - in Which HE operated specifically upon the earth according to HIS Humanity;
and the HOLY SPIRIT, the third named in the Trinitarian Formula, sent as the PARACLETE WHO would continue on the Work of CHRIST in HIS Church, as the DIVINE LIFE giving Christian Substance to true Christians, acting as the very LIFE of the Saints still living in this world, is, as the SPIRIT given them, presently active in this world in a very special way.

In Gen. 22, we see the first mention of GOD simply using the term [`ELOHIYM], in the first Divene Reference to Isaac as Abraham's only son. The second occurance is from the Mouth of ONE called the ANGEL of YHWH (JESUS, the LAMB of GOD, WHOSE own Sacrifice was symbolically here substituted for Isaac's in the provision of a sacrificial animal - in which HE indicates to Isaac, "I'll take your place, your life is saved by MY death!"). In the third occurance, ONE is called the ANGEL of YHWH, WHO, like the HOLY SPIRIT in the Church today, speaks both as GOD and of GOD, as the SPIRIT of the Saints bearing Witness to the Oracles of their GOD.

I have more to say of the NAME of the TRINITY in a later post, as well as of the word [`echadh]. But first let me finish this post with the promised listing of the uses of [yachiydh] - which is preliminary to what follows:

These are the only other occurences in the Tanakh:

Judges 11:34
And Jephthah came to Mizpah unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

Jeremiah 6:26
O daughter of my people, gird thee with sackcloth, and wallow thyself in ashes; make thee mourning, as for an only son, most bitter lamentation; for the spoiler shall suddenly come upon us.

Amos 8:9
...as the mourning for an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first-born.

Psalms:
22:21
Deliver my soul from the sword; mine only one from the power of the dog.

25:16
Turn Thee unto me, and be gracious unto me; for I am solitary and afflicted.

35:17
Rescue my soul from their destructions, mine only one from the lions.

68:7
God maketh the solitary to dwell in a house....

Proverbs 4:3
For I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother.

[muhsin]

Also, i think i can answer some of your other questions.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is alluding to Jesus which becomes even more apparent later in John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This shows us, that Jesus was God. Now arguements have been made about the translation of Logos, but Ill agree with the translation that states that Logos represents Jesus in this instance. So, in fact, the trinity becomes aparant because Jesus is God. So by worshipping Jesus, we are worshiping only one God. I hope this helps a little bit.

This manifested the truth that you didn’t read my last post. However, I’d quoted some verses like:
You have never heard His voice, nor seen His face (john 5:37)
No one can see me and stay alive (exodus 33:20)
No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him (1 timothy 6:16)
Didn’t the Jews at his time, his family and his followers SEE Jesus and HEAR his voice?
As you can figure out, all the aforementioned verses are talking about God.
Then who is who? Who really is that ONE God?
By the way, my fellow Christian, don’t, please I beg misunderstand my critics. It’s in the Holy Bible I read a certain verse that makes me to stand up and look for the actual fact about all that I’ve so far asked. i.e.: seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free (john 8:32).
…………waiting…….and God bless you.

[Green Lady]

This manifested the truth that you didn’t read my last post. However, I’d quoted some verses like:
You have never heard His voice, nor seen His face (john 5:37)
No one can see me and stay alive (exodus 33:20)
No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him (1 timothy 6:16)
Didn’t the Jews at his time, his family and his followers SEE Jesus and HEAR his voice?
As you can figure out, all the aforementioned verses are talking about God.
Then who is who? Who really is that ONE God?
By the way, my fellow Christian, don’t, please I beg misunderstand my critics. It’s in the Holy Bible I read a certain verse that makes me to stand up and look for the actual fact about all that I’ve so far asked. i.e.: seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free (john 8:32).
…………waiting…….and God bless you.

I just wanted to correct one of the scriptures you quoted. 1 timothy 6:16 does not say that it in fact says: "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Also, the passages after verse 20 in Exodus 33 say this: 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: "33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen."

So, He was seen but not His face. And the passage from John is when Jesus is talking to those that are persecuting him, telling them that they have not heard His voice, or seen His face because of their wickedness.