PoemoftheWeek

[jackyyyy]

She is saying, AS IF they, the LANDSCAPES...

An eager look on LANDSCAPES (AS IF) they, the landscapes themselves, repressed, pushed away (concealed, hidden) some secret that was trying to get out. She is not quite accusing the LANDSCAPES.

The LANDSCAPES are natural, change with the seasons, and because of the SQs (seasonal), and because of the snow (seasonal), I think of Winter.

Moments of Dominion... are good feelings of mastery, ownership, conquest. I think she is elating in the first 3 stanzas.

If I want to pick on every word I can, but I can't see why she would write a riddle. I wonder the test here is reading her style. Ktd seems very sure of, I look forward to what she has to say.

[chmpman]

But she uses the word "Vest", which seems to imply a feeling from the heart, as XC pointed out. If the landscapes are what is repressed, why the use of "Vest"?

I'm under the impression that the poem's meaning is to relate her feelings under the influence of nature. This is not an easy task, hence the ambiguity. I like it for that.

[jackyyyy]

Yes, its sure ambiguous anyway.. which is not a bad thing, like music, except when people want to be exact about it. Vest to me (don't laugh), is snow. Because its white (ya, I know lots of coloured vests, but not back then). Vest is also a verb.. but I do not want to complicate it anymore than is already.

[ktd222]

Ktd seems very sure of, I look forward to what she has to say

Its just an argument for one way to see the poem. Isn't the one who posts the poem suppose to be active in the discussion anyways?

Okay, fine, well do this by stanza.

The Tint I cannot take -- is best --
The Color too remote
That I could show it in Bazaar --
A Guinea at a sight --

This to me reads The Tint she cannot take is the Tint at its best. There is a negative tone associated with what she cannot take. Look at the next lines:

The Color too remote
That I could show it in Bazaar --
A Guinea at a sight --

More emphasis on the I. The Color of the Tint is too remote that she could show it in Bazaar--A Guinea at a sight.

Bazaar defined: A bazaar is a market, often covered, typically found in areas of Muslim culture.

The goods that the market is selling is found 'inside' or under the covering of the market. Another allusion to the market covering being the Tint and what it has to offer(its goods) inside. And you could almost see her paying a Guinea for a glimpse(sight) into the Tint. Yet, The poem starts off 'The Tint I cannot take-' so that negates that action being done by her to 'pay' for a look, if you will, into what the Tint has to offer inside-not full discernment though, she only gets 'a sight' for a Guinea-never more.

Its still 'The Tint she cannot take'

The Color too remote

Its as if from the color of the Tint alone she is unable to discern the significance of the Tint; so instead she 'pays' for discernment: 'A Guinea at a sight.' Even though, again, it is 'The Tint she cannot take.'

Agree or disagree? Any other opinons to how stanza 1 translates?

[Xamonas Chegwe]

I like Petrarch's Love's idea about the 'tint' - back about 5 pages! - that she is referring to herself as a cloth and the 'tint' as a colour (a dye) that is too special and sublime to be completely absorbed by the cloth as it is, that is, the cloth cannot express it perfectly. She uses this as a metaphor for the way in which her soul is moved by nature at it's greatest but cannot express it adequately in words. If this is what she meant, it is a beautiful allegory. Even if this is NOT what she meant, it is STILL a beautiful allegory. I hope that it IS what she meant.

[ktd222]

Stanza 2:

The fine -- impalpable Array --
That swaggers on the eye
Like Cleopatra's Company --
Repeated -- in the sky --

'The fine -- impalpable Array --' to me, is a description of the Tint as being 'incapable of being felt by touch'(m-w dictionary). Or another way of implying that she is trying to grasp The Tint-which is just an alternative way from the first stanza-of 'paying' for information in order to understand the signifcance of The Tint. So that, as she is trying to grasp, 'The fine--impalpable Array--' seems to almost boast in front of her eye because Tint is not graspable, also.

What I get from this: 'Like Cleopatra's Company --Repeated -- in the sky --'
is not only the way the Tint seems to swagger in front of the eye thats trying in vain to grasp it, but this line almost gives an imagined image to us about how graspable the Tint is-try physically, to grasp reflections of anything. You can't physically hold shadows in the palm of you hands. But as to why she specifically uses 'Cleopatra's Company,' I don't know. Any thoughts?

Disagree or agree?

[Virgil]

Stanza 2:

The fine -- impalpable Array --
That swaggers on the eye
Like Cleopatra's Company --
Repeated -- in the sky --

'The fine -- impalpable Array --' to me, is a description of the Tint as being 'incapable of being felt by touch'(m-w dictionary). Or another way of implying that she is trying to grasp The Tint-which is just an alternative way from the first stanza-of 'paying' for information in order to understand the signifcance of The Tint. So that, as she is trying to grasp, 'The fine--impalpable Array--' seems to almost boast in front of her eye because Tint is not graspable, also.

What I get from this: 'Like Cleopatra's Company --Repeated -- in the sky --'
is not only the way the Tint seems to swagger in front of the eye thats trying in vain to grasp it, but this line almost gives an imagined image to us about how graspable the Tint is-try physically, to grasp reflections of anything. You can't physically hold shadows in the palm of you hands. But as to why she specifically uses 'Cleopatra's Company,' I don't know. Any thoughts?

Disagree or agree?

I'm still holding on to my reading, although you make interesting points. Your reading doesn't explain "Momnets of Dominion on the soul" If you can weave that in, you might pursuade me.

This might hinge on how we interpret impalpable, so here's M-W:

impalpable
Main Entry: im·pal·pa·ble
Pronunciation: (")im-'pal-p&-b&l
Function: adjective
1 a : incapable of being felt by touch : INTANGIBLE <the impalpable aura of power that emanated from him -- Osbert Sitwell> b : so finely divided that no grains or grit can be felt <rock worn to an impalpable powder>
2 : not readily discerned by the mind

[ktd222]

Virgil,

I'll explain the third stanza later. I have to get back to work.

[ktd222]

The Moments of Dominion
That happen on the Soul
And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite -- to tell --

The third stanza transports the experience beyond that: "The Moments of Dominion / That happen on the Soul / And leave it with a Discontent / Too exquisite - to tell-" This is a deep phenomena she's talking about, obviously because of the allusions, spiritual, trascendental.

You stated above, and I agree, that 'The Moments of Dominion that happen on the Soul' has transported to a spiritual or transcendent level. 'The Moments of Dominion' may be the 'impalpable Array(stanza2),'The Tint' itself(stanza1), that is in front of her. All one in the same. In the first two stanzas she is trying to understand the Tint, but unsuccessfully. In this stanza the Tint, which we find out is same as 'The Moments of Dominion' happens on the Soul. 'Happens-'just happens on the Soul, not because she has found any way to understand it-because she hasn't. Even though 'The Moments of Dominion' happen on the Soul, she is unrealizing of it. Just as the Tint and Array shows itself to her.

'The Moments of Dominion' happen, it happens on the Soul, right on the Soul. And yet, the Soul 'cannot take' 'The Moments of Dominion' into itself. Which metaphorically would be understanding, right? The Soul is still bound to some need of seeing and reasoning to understand, which prevents her from realizing 'The Moments of Dominion' happens right on her soul. And as a result:

And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite -- to tell

leaves even the Soul with a lack of contentment too exquisite to tell(to explain).

Any other opinions?

[jackyyyy]

I am still taking in everything you wrote there, Ktd. What about this word 'Exquisite'. Why do you think she picked that word?

[ktd222]

What about this word 'Exquisite'. Why do you think she picked that word?

And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite -- to tell

ya, thats tough, because their is weird syntax when I translate the line above.

...And leaves the soul with a discontent too selective to tell.

Any thoughts, because I'm tired. I'll comment tomorrow.

[Xamonas Chegwe]

Exquisite is an unusual word in the ways it can be used.

It has 2 slightly differing meanings:

1. Extremely beautiful, usually with overtones of delicacy - "The filigree work on the musical box was exquisite."
2. Intensely felt - "As the lash struck his bared back, the pain was exquisite."

I think that Dickinson is well aware of the ambiguity of the word, it's positive/negative dichotomy. It could be that she is using it to simultaneously describe both the beauty and power of the 'tint' (in my interpretation, an awe-inspiring experience of nature) and the intensity of the discontent felt by being unable to fully grasp it's essence.

[ktd222]

Exquisite is an unusual word in the ways it can be used.

It has 2 slightly differing meanings:

1. Extremely beautiful, usually with overtones of delicacy - "The filigree work on the musical box was exquisite."
2. Intensely felt - "As the lash struck his bared back, the pain was exquisite."

I think that Dickinson is well aware of the ambiguity of the word, it's positive/negative dichotomy. It could be that she is using it to simultaneously describe both the beauty and power of the 'tint' (in my interpretation, an awe-inspiring experience of nature) and the intensity of the discontent felt by being unable to fully grasp it's essence.

But this wouldn't fit with what is going on in the first two stanzas. A certain 'trying' to understand by her.

exquisite
2 entries found for exquisite.
To select an entry, click on it.
exquisite[1,adjective]exquisite[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1ex·qui·site
Pronunciation: ek-'skwi-z&t, 'ek-(")
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English exquisit, from Latin exquisitus, past participle of exquirere to search out, from ex- + quaerere to seek
1 : carefully selected : CHOICE
2 archaic : ACCURATE
3 a : marked by flawless craftsmanship or by beautiful, ingenious, delicate, or elaborate execution b : marked by nice discrimination, deep sensitivity, or subtle understanding <exquisite taste> c : ACCOMPLISHED, PERFECTED <an exquisite gentleman>
4 a : pleasing through beauty, fitness, or perfection <an exquisite white blossom> b : ACUTE, INTENSE <exquisite pain> c : having uncommon or esoteric appeal
synonym see CHOICE
- ex·qui·site·ly adverb
- ex·qui·site·ness noun

The first or second definition would fit better.

[jackyyyy]

#2 works for me too. I don't know that it can be ambiguous without compromising the earlier stanzas. Anyway... a little closer to exquisition.

[Virgil]

The Moments of Dominion
That happen on the Soul
And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite -- to tell --



You stated above, and I agree, that 'The Moments of Dominion that happen on the Soul' has transported to a spiritual or transcendent level. 'The Moments of Dominion' may be the 'impalpable Array(stanza2),'The Tint' itself(stanza1), that is in front of her. All one in the same. In the first two stanzas she is trying to understand the Tint, but unsuccessfully. In this stanza the Tint, which we find out is same as 'The Moments of Dominion' happens on the Soul. 'Happens-'just happens on the Soul, not because she has found any way to understand it-because she hasn't. Even though 'The Moments of Dominion' happen on the Soul, she is unrealizing of it. Just as the Tint and Array shows itself to her.

'The Moments of Dominion' happen, it happens on the Soul, right on the Soul. And yet, the Soul 'cannot take' 'The Moments of Dominion' into itself. Which metaphorically would be understanding, right? The Soul is still bound to some need of seeing and reasoning to understand, which prevents her from realizing 'The Moments of Dominion' happens right on her soul. And as a result:

And leave it with a Discontent
Too exquisite -- to tell

leaves even the Soul with a lack of contentment too exquisite to tell(to explain).

Any other opinions?

OK, that's not really different from what I and others were saying.


And at the end of the poem, then the lifting of the "Tulle" at death is a revalation, and I mean that in the religious sense. What is ungraspable but exquisite in life is revealed at death. Ok, I'm comfortable now with the whole thing.