Raoul seems to me to be a spoiled brat. At one point in the book while trying to convince Christine to run away with him, he throws an adult temper-tantrum and accuses Christine of not loving him and loving Erik. Besides, Raoul annoys me anyway. I would have stayed with Erik and loved him as he deserved. Does anyone else feel that way/Does Raoul seem like a spoiled child to anyone else?
Actually, I completely agree with you. Webber's Raoul is slightly more tolerable. But I also think he is a spoiled brat.
Christine did NOT love Raul, and Raul did NOT love Christine. Christine loved the Phantom. The Phantom told her to leave at the end. In the musical Raul uses Christine as bait when he thinks the Phantom is so crazy! That is NOT love! He was totally jealaus!
Christine doesn't love Raoul, she only have admiration for him. Do you notice, in the musical, she never actually says 'I Love you' to either of them?
I can not stand Roul he is such a brat like you said but that is human nature and Roul and Christine love each other but Christine's fear and sympathe stopped her from ever admitting it
Christine mouths the words "I love you" to Rauol just before she kisses the Phantom.
Hi there! I'm a fan of the musical and since reading your threads i'm going to go to the library tomorrow to borrow the book!
Since this thread seemed to be about the movie i wanted to put my opinion on the air about the Roul, Christine, Phantom triangle.
Firstly the Raoul is a spoiled brat thing- i kinda get it but not really. Like you said though the book raoul is worse. In the musical he's sweet- brings her flowers, guards her door so she can sleep without fear, calms her when she's frightened, he seems like a pretty decent guy.
I personally wouldn't have stayed with the phantom and i don't think christine should have either. The Phantom was deranged, he should be pitied in the time relevent meaning of the word, But she was terrified of him.
Meg "Your face christine, it's white"
Chris "It frightens me"
Meg "Don't be frightened"
Plus then the whole murderer thing.
As to Christine, i pretty much accept that back in the day people fall in love pretty quick, so i think she probably loved raoul.
In the musical while i never noticed that she didn't say she loved raoul that was cause i took it for fact from the scenes on the roof.
Chris "...his eyes will find me there, those eyes that burn. He has to kill a thousand men..." continue on about the fear.
Chris "All i want is freedom, a world with no more night, and you always beside me, to gaurd me and to hide me." Engagement song.
And yes it was bad of raoul to use her as bait but he thought she'd be safe. I always found fault with that though cause he announced his plan in the opera house- what an idiot!
To refer to another thread. About what did raoul mean when he sang 'say you love him and my life is over" I think it was metaphorical not that he would actually kill himself, but he is distraught cause the woman he loves would have to spend the rest of her life married to someone that is deranged, whom he believes she fears. Be a pretty hard pill to swallow if someone gave up their freedom for years of sorrow just for little old you. The Phantom wins either way because he either gets to kill raoul or ruin raouls happiness and keep the girl. Either way the loving couple is torn apart. That's just the way i saw and again i haven't read the book so maybe i'm missing something.
Long post, sorry, but to finish off i reckon that the phantom was nuts, that he had some pull over christine that was mystical not love, and that Love is defined by selfless acts for your beloved (eg. giving up your life to spare theirs) and not obsessive controlling selfish motives.
Granted he did let them both go in the end, that was his saving grace and what makes me think he did actually love christine.
I SO CAN'T WAIT TO READ THE BOOK!!!!
This is not meant to be inflamatory or disrespectful in any way, i just love raoul
Last edited by TortalFantomFan; 03-28-2006 at 08:08 AM.
i think the feelings and emotions of the phantom is messed up because he was lacking for love. "poor Erick" said Christen. and i gree with her. it hurts so badly when someone is not loved. i think that love is the food of the soul.
Good call.
(The Andrew Loyd Webber Musical Version of Raul is much nicer, and Erik is much more romantic!
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I am smarter than Christine Daae. When a hot man in a mask started to obsess over me I stayed with him instead of breaking his heart by running off with the fop Viscomte Roul de Changy! Now Erik is MY angel of music!!
Song “Think of Me”
When Christine sings "Think of Me" on stage, Raoul discovers that the young singer is Christine, his childhood sweetheart. The words of the song seems to have two meanings. The first is a reflection on the relationship that Christine and Raoul had as children. But, the song also foreshadows the relationship that Christine and Erik will ultimately have. Raoul is a typical wealthy son of the rich. Definitely a spoiled brat. If he had really cared for Christine as a child, he would have kept in touch with her, especially after her father's death. I haven't read the books yet, to know more than what the the movie has shown me.
Christine being frightened of Erik
Christine sings that she is frightened at the time she is singing with Meg. What she is frightened about is that her secret is no longer just that. Erik’s identity has not been shown to her, but, her fear is most likely that she does not know what to expect as a repercussion for the breach in secrecy. She says that her Angel of Music is not a secret, safe and in danger. Then when Erik makes his presence after the show regarding Raoul's attention and taking credit for her glory, Christine asks for her Master to show himself. When he does, she is instantly in a daze and is mesmerized by Erik. There is no fear in her eyes at all until she removes his mask. If she had not done so, the mystery of Erik would have continued to enchant her. Although, every time she saw Erik she was still very much enchanted and mesmerized by Erik, even at the masquerade. The only time she showed her fear of Erik was in the presence of Raoul.
Christine also states several different times about Erik being a murderer. There are several posts about villain vs good. I do not see Erik as a villain. When he first took a life as a child, it was because someone was stealing his gold pieces as the symbols for his monkey toy. That was the only thing he possessed of value. He was protecting what was his. Then the others that he killed were basically to preserve his identity as a “ghost”. If they lived, they would divulge that it was a real “man”. It was a way to keep people from possibly entering his lair and destroying his life. This concept is much like the American Indians in the movie “Last of the Dogmen.” They killed people that wandered to close to where they were living; they were American Indians that escaped moving to reservations living life as their ancesters had. They were protecting their way of life. Erik didn’t seem to kill anyone that hadn’t seen him up close other than Madam Ciry (who protected him until she told her story to Raoul), Christine & then Raoul.
I don't think that Christine is confused. She loves both men in different ways. And Erik makes the decision to bow out. Christine's kiss was enough for him to know that she really did love him. No one had ever showed him so much compassion. And her return of the ring she slipped onto her finger before the kiss was a symbolism of eternal love. She gave it back to him to let him know that he was not alone and that it was proof that she would love him forever. Erik then later returns the ring to her at her grave as proof that he did love her for eternity. In the song "All I Ask of You", there is a line about love and live one lifetime together. Raoul got the first lifetime. Erik and Christine will get the second lifetime after death we can only hope. And Erik will be as handsome as Gerard Butler playing his part in the opera.
Come on! I LOVE Raoul!
WHatever else he was, Erik was a murder, and there wasn't any excuse for some of his murders.
Raoul was spoiled. As people pointed out, he sorta had to be.
Also, in the book, her father didn't die until /much/ later in life and they didn't meet each other, from what I could tell, until after the time they parted in the movie and spent years together. They might've fallen out of touch- but it also might be that his parent's wouldn't let them.
After all, their precious son dove into the /OCEAN/ in his good clothes to get some scarf.
In the book Erik is much more... ah... Mad than he's portrayed in the movie. It's not just "Marry me or I kill him". It's "Marry me or the entire place explodes, not that I'll tell you this straight- you have to find out." He also frightened me considerably more than in the movie. I don't think I'd want to be in the same building as Leroux's Erik for longer than a minute- much less wed to him for a lifetime. Christine probably felt the same way.
As for the whole "Did Christine love Raoul" thing... I think she did. Alot of what she does around Raoul seems to be her attempts to keep him safe from Erik.
Now, in the movie, I think she loved Phantom. He was just much more lovable, not quite as bad, and seemed kind of sane- if not a bit disturbed and murderous. She probably would've stayed with Erik more or less willingly in the movie, but he made her leave.
In the book, yes. In the movie I disagree, if you look at his personality and everything else they give you. There also weren't as many we're told about.Originally Posted by Llawen
"Evil Gypsy" (that's what he's called on IMDB)- Caged him, beat him, cursed him out, and showed him to the world as the 'monster' he was. Really, he deserved it. No one likes being caged, beaten, or displayed as a freak. Put all that together for long enough and you'll do anything to escape.
Joseph Buquet- First of all, he keeps talking about Phantom. This is bad. Madam Giry advises against it, for good reason.
If you look at it- Erik also hates being cornered. He knows all the ways out, even in his little cave he had a secret exit for emergencies. That Joseph was now trying to 'catch' him probably got him really annoyed and showed him that the behavior had to be stopped.
Piangi- Ok... this one I can understand as being uncalled for. It was mostly because he needed to play Don Juan and couldn't have Piangi waking up and alerting everyone.
Chandelier- This was to hurt everyone simply becuse he was mad at the world by now, since even the one person he thought might love him betrayed him like that. Also, it was his way to escape to be sure /he/ didn't die.
And every time I wonder where the world went wrong,
End up lying on my face going ringy dingy ding dong
And every time I wonder if the world is right,
End up in some disco dancin all night & day.
Hey I just want to point out one thing.
Is everyone forgetting about Christine Coming back to bury Erik at the end of the book. She kept her promise to Erik and I think this along with other moments in th book prove that she did love Erik. Yes She thought he was a deranged murder, but she felt sorry for him because he never knew what it was to be loved or to have anything to care about. Because of these feelings she grew fond of him, and began to love him.
And I think she also loved Raoul. They grew up as childhood sweet hearts and were parted, only to meet up by chance years later. After their meeting hey still felt fond of each other and let their love for each opther grow.
Christine Loved Erik and Raoul both very much. And i think Erik must have not been completely insane because he realized what it was to love and to care for someone, and because he found these emotions that was why he was albe to let chritine go in the book.
thanks i just wanted to say my thoughts on the matter.
Kenneth Matheson
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