Dynamic characters in The Crucible

[AGY]

I have a rough draft due soon, and I'm getting a little desperate

So the topic I'm supposed to write about is a dynamic character and the relevance of the character's change

So I chose John Hale, because of how he turns from confident and righteous to someone who realizes the truth and attempts to save those he condemned

However, I fail to see how that is relevant to the plot. While his character did change, it was too late at that point, as multiple characters have been hanged, and Proctor is still executed. While I could say "If he changed faster, then he might have saved people" but teachers don't really like the "if____ then ____ might have happened" structure.

Also, if anyone could solidify on how he changed throughout the story, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[Dreamwoven]

Sorry, but this is a common mistake new members make, that we have read everything and can pronounce on them. You are very welcome to the LitNet Forums, AGY, and I hope that by browsing the forums you will find your place and enjoy yourself. You might like to provide a few details of the book or the author, date of publication etc. You never know, someone on the forums might have read it!

[Pompey Bum]

Another way to put that is that when we start doing people's homework for them (to be nice), they usually tell their friends and we get a ship storm (as it were) of students expecting us to write their papers. But I'll tell you what I will do: I'll give you my impressions to (hopefully) stimulate your own ideas. But you have to take it from there. Write your own draft and don't send your buddies over. And please don't send me private messages about this. I'm sorry to sound ungracious, but you have had predecessors (some of whom still drop in) who have abused things.

It seems to me that Miller was writing about discerning truth and the implications of living with lies. So Hale is an important figure because he comes to Salem to determine whether there is really an outbreak of witchcraft or just bunch of teenagers lying. The change Hale goes through is from his early blindness to the manipulations of Abigail to his discernment of truth through actual investigation (privately interviewing Elizabeth and John Proctor, for example) and thinking for himself (his skepticism and eventual resignation from the court). But although Hale eventually understands that the accusations are lies, he rejects truth as an antidote. Instead he urges Proctor to save himself from hanging by a false confession (which would have destroyed his name and implicated others). As you know, Proctor is tempted but ultimately rejects this solution and goes to the gallows with the other innocents.

So the fact that Hale's change does not prevent the hangings turns out to be important to the story. I would read over that part again and ask yourself how Hale's well intended solution of a false confession works within the analogy Miller is drawing between the witch hysteria and McCarthyism--which is rather the point of the play. Note also that historically the dubious execution of a relatively important man like John Proctor and a harmless and pious old lady like Rebecca Nurse (who everyone knew damn well was innocent) ultimately weakened the credibility of the witchcraft trials; they were later ended when the girls started accusing a handful of skeptical big shots in Boston. So what do you think Miller is saying about Hale's proposal and Proctor's decision in the light of his own times?

I hope that was helpful and, like DW, I truly welcome you to the site.

DW: You ought to read The Crucible. It's not that long, and it's a great play.

[Dreamwoven]

Your recommendation is good, I will do that, Pompey.

[Pompey Bum]

Your recommendation is good, I will do that, Pompey.

Here's an online/downloadable pdf version. It's only 61 (mini-) pages. I'd recommend it to anyone else, too.

http://www.cusd80.com/cms/lib6/AZ010...obe_format.pdf

[AGY]

Another way to put that is that when we start doing people's homework for them (to be nice), they usually tell their friends and we get a ship storm (as it were) of students expecting us to write their papers. But I'll tell you what I will do: I'll give you my impressions to (hopefully) stimulate your own ideas. But you have to take it from there. Write your own draft and don't send your buddies over. And please don't send me private messages about this. I'm sorry to sound ungracious, but you have had predecessors (some of whom still drop in) who have abused things.

It seems to me that Miller was writing about discerning truth and the implications of living with lies. So Hale is an important figure because he comes to Salem to determine whether there is really an outbreak of witchcraft or just bunch of teenagers lying. The change Hale goes through is from his early blindness to the manipulations of Abigail to his discernment of truth through actual investigation (privately interviewing Elizabeth and John Proctor, for example), and thinking for himself (his skepticism and eventual resignation from the court). But although Hale eventually understands that the accusations are lies, he rejects truth as an antidote. Instead he urges Proctor to save himself from hanging by a false confession (which would have destroyed his name and implicated others). As you know, Proctor is tempted but ultimately rejects this solution and goes to the gallows with the other innocents.

So the fact that Hale's change does not prevent the hangings turns out to be important to the story. I would read over that part again and ask yourself how Hale's well intended solution of a false confession works within the analogy Miller is drawing between the witch hysteria and McCarthyism--which is rather the point of the play. Note also that the dubious execution of a relatively important man like John Proctor and a harmless and pious old lady like Rebecca Nurse (who everyone knew damn well was innocent) ultimately weakened the credibility of the witchcraft trials; they were later ended when the girl's started accusing a handful of skeptical big shots in Boston. So what do you think Miller is saying about Hale's proposal and Proctor's decision in the light of his own times?

I hope that was helpful and, like DW, I truly welcome you to the site.

DW: You ought to read The Crucible. It's not that long, and it's a great play.

I have no intention on bringing my friends over here, I just needed a starting point for my essay, which you have provided magnificently.

Thanks for the help!

[Pompey Bum]

You're welcome. I hope it works out for you. And bring any friends you like as long as they don't get the idea we're writing their papers for them.

[Dreamwoven]

I have just ordered the Crucible from Bokus.com, look forward to receiving it and reading it. We have about a foot of snow here and its still falling...

[Pompey Bum]

I hope you enjoy it, DW. Nothing but leaves falling over here.

[Danik 2016]

I was so engrossed by the play that I read it all yesterday.
I would love to discuss it. I had heard of the Witches of Salem but had no idea what it was about.
Just waiting until DW and who else wants to participate reads the play.
And I promise solemnly that I´m not going to write a paper about it.

[Red Terror]

I was so engrossed by the play that I read it all yesterday.
I would love to discuss it. I had heard of the Witches of Salem but had no idea what it was about.
Just waiting until DW and who else wants to participate reads the play.
And I promise solemnly that I´m not going to write a paper about it.

Witch hunts are a metaphor for the anti-communist hysteria generated by the demagogic Senator Joseph McCarthy. Arthur Miller refused to name names and protected leftists that he knew were socialist and communists from persecution. The movie "Trumbo" captures the spirit of the times. Dalton Trumbo wrote the anti-war novel Johnny Got his Gun and the screenplay for the film Spartacus.

[Pompey Bum]

I was so engrossed by the play that I read it all yesterday.
I would love to discuss it. I had heard of the Witches of Salem but had no idea what it was about.
Just waiting until DW and who else wants to participate reads the play.
And I promise solemnly that I´m not going to write a paper about it.

Stop teasing me.

And discuss away, Danik. I already spoiled the ending (sorry, DW), so it couldn't hurt. When I was younger, I did some political work in that area (Salem/Danvers) and got to spend some time on the properties of some of the families involved, including Rebecca Nurse's. A few years ago there was a BBC/PBS production about the events called Three Soverigns for Sarah. The production crew built an accurate reproduction of the homestead, and it was still there. I don't believe in ghosts, but I must admit there was an weird feeling about the place.

[Danik 2016]

"Witch hunts are a metaphor for the anti-communist hysteria generated by the demagogic Senator Joseph McCarthy." Thanks, Red. I know that that is the interpretation of the play. But what interests me most is how the play relates to the original episode.

Its fine that you have worked there, Pompey I was hoping to have the opinion of someone that knows the place and has felt its energy.
The whole episode of the judgment reminded me of the catholic Inquisition that was very active at the same time. With one important difference- In the Inquisition the judges were the men of the church and the condemned were executed by the secular power. In the play here it is the secular power that judges the witches the ministers don´t seem to have much influence. The tribunal seems to be mainly concerned to demonstrate and exert its power.It doesn´t care for the fate of the accused and Hale is almost told to mind his own business.
Tituba is a curious character too- We have here African religions and rites too. One of them is called "Macumba". I don´t know much about it but there is dancing to the playing of drums. The religious leader man or woman is said to incorporate the African gods and also, if I am not mistaken the spirits of the dead but never a living one. Maybe Tituba was enacting a similar kind of ritual, they were consulting the dead spirit of some girl. But the interpretation turned it seemingly into something different, the kettle and the frog are associated to European witches.
Another thing that puzzles me: how come that a bunch of 12 year old girls came to have so much power in that community, to apoint the possessed? It seemed that they first appointed some outsiders as witches but in the last not even very cherished members of the parish were spared. Children like power as much as adult and they are more open about it. When Mary Warren expressed herself the first time about it I thought she was a member of the judgment board. Did they manipulate the whole community or where they themselves manipulated by the board?

[Pompey Bum]

The whole episode of the judgment reminded me of the catholic Inquisition that was very active at the same time. With one important difference- In the Inquisition the judges were the men of the church and the condemned were executed by the secular power. In the play here it is the secular power that judges the witches the ministers don't seem to have much influence.

The distinction between secular and sacred power would have been pretty fuzzy at the time of the trials. The court members were religious authorities, too, but they held higher status than local clergy like Parris. The hearing was set up by the governor in Boston, and it convened in Salem Town, which is the modern city of Salem. But most of the accusations took place in the rural (and socially lower) Salem Village, which is now the town of Danvers. So some of what you are sensing is probably that kind of status issue.

Its fine that you have worked there, Pompey I was hoping to have the opinion of someone that knows the place and has felt its energy.

Danvers is still a quiet place. The Nurse property definitely had a "too quiet" feeling to it. I'm sure it was mostly my mood or imagination, although people claim to have run into Rebecca's ghost over the years. I don't buy it, but there was a sort of sad feeling to the place. Salem, on the other hand, is just a second-rate city. There's a pretty waterfront there and a great maritime museum, but it doesn't have a lot else going for it. Witch tourists are invariably disappointed.

Tituba is a curious character too- We have here African religions and rites too. One of them is called "Macumba". I don´t know much about it but there is dancing to the playing of drums. The religious leader man or woman is said to incorporate the African gods and also, if I am not mistaken the spirits of the dead but never a living one. Maybe Tituba was enacting a similar kind of ritual, they were consulting the dead spirit of some girl. But the interpretation turned it seemingly into something different, the kettle and the frog are associated to European witches.

I think that part of the play is somewhat speculative. Tituba was a slave from the Caribbean and well known to the girls, so people have assumed she must have been teaching them some kind of traditional magic. But the girls could simply have accused her because she was an easy target. What Tituba did, though, was to plead guilty and name others to save herself. This is one of the things that reminded Miller of McCarthyism.

By the way, I think I may have seen the possession ritual you are talking about, many years ago in rural Africa.

Another thing that puzzles me: how come that a bunch of 12 year old girls came to have so much power in that community, to apoint the possessed? It seemed that they first appointed some outsiders as witches but in the last not even very cherished members of the parish were spared. Children like power as much as adult and they are more open about it. When Mary Warren expressed herself the first time about it I thought she was a member of the judgment board. Did they manipulate the whole community or where they themselves manipulated by the board?

Yeah, power is what it was all about, and the girls drove the whole thing. Women didn't have much overt power in Puritan Massachusetts, and children had even less; so imagine what it would have been like for these girls, who were between eight and seventeen. Maybe Tituba had been teaching them magic and they felt guilty or were afraid they were going to get in trouble if they didn't strike first. Maybe they just didn't like her. But they bit, and people started to get and executed, and what do you know, power tasted pretty good. So they kept going. The girls used to claim that the people they accused would send their spirits after them. That's why they used to writhe and scream when the accused were brought into court. But this could be done remotely, too. All they had to do was to fall and twist about and cry: "Oh, Goodman Danik doth pinch me!"--and you'd be out of luck. In court, this was known as "spectral evidence," and it was how the girls did business. Later, after they'd grown up, they admitted they had faked the whole thing. It had just seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Danik 2016]

"The distinction between secular and sacred power would have been pretty fuzzy at the time of the trials. The court members were religious authorities, too, but they held higher status than local clergy like Parris. The hearing was set up by the governor in Boston, and it convened in Salem Town, which is the modern city of Salem. But most of the accusations took place in the rural (and socially lower) Salem Villiage, which is now the town of Danvers. So some of what you are sensing is probably that kind of status issue."
Reading the play and the little historical information I found in Google, you get the impression that it was a local or, at most, a very regional episode. That higher courts and courts with teological background got involved in it doesn´t make it easier to understand.
"Danvers is still a quiet place. The Nurse property definitely had a "too quiet" feeling to it. I'm sure it was mostly my mood or imagination, although people claim to have run into Rebecca's ghost over the years. I don't buy it, but there was a sort of sad feeling to the place. Salem, on the other hand, is just a second-rate city. There's a pretty waterfront there and a great maritime museum, but it doesn't have a lot else going for it. Witch tourists are invariably disappointed."
You probably were impressed with what you had heard about the place, before going to it. Even so, maybe you have a hightened sensibility for the energy of the place. And I guess the city changed its name not to be too readily associated with the witches episode.

"I think that part of the play is somewhat speculative. Tituba was a slave from the Caribbean and well known to the girls, so people have assumed she must have been teaching them some kind of traditional magic. But the girls could simply have accused her because she was an easy target. What Tituba did, though, was to plead guilty and name others to save herself. This is one of the things that reminded Miller of McCarthyism.

By the way, I think I may have seen the possession ritual you are talking about, many years ago in rural Africa."
It seems Miller didn´t have much knowled of African religious practices. What puzzles me is that a negro slave would share her native religious knowledge with white people even with girls or children. Here they would practice it among them. It only was disseminated after Abolition I think, but I didn´t read about it.
Today there are many communities where macumba or umbanda is practised, some of them are open to tourists. They are usually led by a "Pai de Santo" or a "Mãe de Santo"
(literally Father or Mother of th Saint) which is an influential and highly respected member of the community.
"Yeah, power is what it was all about, and the girls drove the whole thing. Women didn't have much overt power in Puritan Massachusetts, and children had even less; so imagine what it would have been like for these girls, who were between eight and seventeen. Maybe Tituba had been teaching them magic and they felt guilty or were afraid they were going to get in trouble if they didn't strike first. Maybe they just didn't like her. But they bit, and people started to get and executed, and what do you know, power tasted pretty good. So they kept going. The girls used to claim that the people they accused would send their spirits after them. That's why they used to writhe and scream when the accused were brought into court."
It´s not difficult to understand the children. It is difficult to understand the adults, and local and state authorities at that, buying the show so easily even if one considers that 300 years would pass before Freud published his essays on histeria. It seems not only the children benefited by it.