Jane Eyre: The Age Gap

[Ecurb]

Then, as now, it wasn't age so much as what today we call "life stages."

I think because of Rochester's previous life, he was in the same "stage" as Jane in terms of being ready to settle down and start a family.

That, along with their independence, would lop off most of the problems we associate with age gaps in marriage.

Who is "we"? Life stages? Wasn't Rochester supposed to settle down and start a family many years ago when he married Bertha? Didn't siring Adele give him some obligation to settle down and start a family? Perhaps he just wasn't quite ready for that particular "life stage", poor dear.

There was madness in Bertha's family, so, despite her dissolute habits, perhaps her madness is not due to syphilis. Even then Rochester may well have contracted the disease from French courtesans. In any event, Bertha's insanity and Rochester's promiscuity portend that Jane's marriage will very possibly lead her down the same road that Bertha followed, a descent into incurable disease and madness.

[Laura Clarke]

Who is "we"? Life stages? Wasn't Rochester supposed to settle down and start a family many years ago when he married Bertha? Didn't siring Adele give him some obligation to settle down and start a family? Perhaps he just wasn't quite ready for that particular "life stage", poor dear.

Well, I think Rochester was ready to settle down and start a family, but obviously because Bertha was mad, he couldn't do so. This prevented him from entering that "life stage." And we don't know if Adele was his kid or not, but do we know that he does not consider her his child, and only took her in because he felt that it was the "right" thing to do. Although he agreed to feed, clothe, and care for her, he felt no obligation to treat her as family. Also, I think he still felt inherent bitterness towards Adele because of her mother. Not one of my favorite aspects of Rochester's personality, but it certainly makes sense (Rochester thinks that she is the daughter of the man Celine cheated on him with - It is certainly not Adele's fault, and this does not justify Rochester's behavior, but I might be able to see where he is coming from). I do think that Rochester might have slightly warmed up to Adele after he met Jane though, because I think Jane helped him view Adele in a bit of a different light.

So, I don't think that Rochester wasn't "ready" for that life stage. He just had certain obstacles, both physical and mental, that kept him from settling down.

[mona amon]

Youth is in itself an attractive thing, so at least for Rochester Jane's age is far from being a problem, whatever life stage he was in. Being attracted to her youthfulness makes him normal, rather than creepy, in my opinion, and when Jane is telling him about what a cold fish St John Rivers is, so unlike him, she complains that, "He found nothing attractive in me, not even youth, just a few useful mental points." Jane and Rochester are soul mates, and differences in age, class, fortune and so on simply do not matter. Rochester calls her his "equal and his likeness" long before she inherits her uncle's fortune.

As for Adele, I think he's very kind to her. True, he does not treat her like a daughter, but he does not for a moment believe she's his child. As he tells Jane, "Pilot is more like me than she is", and when Jane examines Adele closely for something to prove a relationship, she fails to find anything. In those pre- DNA test days, that is all they had to go on with.

[Laura Clarke]

Youth is in itself an attractive thing, so at least for Rochester Jane's age is far from being a problem, whatever life stage he was in. Being attracted to her youthfulness makes him normal, rather than creepy, in my opinion, and when Jane is telling him about what a cold fish St John Rivers is, so unlike him, she complains that, "He found nothing attractive in me, not even youth, just a few useful mental points." Jane and Rochester are soul mates, and differences in age, class, fortune and so on simply do not matter. Rochester calls her his "equal and his likeness" long before she inherits her uncle's fortune.

Yes, I think the Jane and Rochester were most certainly soul-mates. Even their age, I realize now, seems to be complimentary to their relationship. However, the one thing that has always confused/bothered me was in their first conversation, when Rochester says that he is "old enough to be her father." I mean, I get that they are similar and compatible in terms of their stages of maturity, but this statement immediately seems to shout, "No romantic relationship is going to start here - keep looking!" In fact, it seems to completely contradict Rochester's actual thoughts. We learn later in the story (the part when he begs Jane to stay) that he was sort of interested in her from the start. And yet, that comment seemed to downright contradict any romantic feelings he could have had - comparing yourself to a father-like object really does not show romantic interest. Was Rochester subconsciously trying to hide/smother his feelings because of Bertha? Or is this just more of the "Rochester" way of speaking? (He does seem to enjoy expressing his superiority in this chapter in terms of experience - was adding the "father" metaphor just a thoughtless addition to this?)

Once again, there is no question of his love for Jane - but I do think that this was an interesting beginning...

[mona amon]

Well, for one thing, we do not know if Rochester was thinking of a romantic relationship with her at this early stage, even if he was attracted to her. I think that only happened after she rescued him from the fire. In the first two conversations they are both rather awkward with each other, at least some of the time. They are just getting to know each other. Jane gives very proper and careful answers, trying to impress, but at times she lets down her guard, like when she tells him she does not think he's handsome. If I remember correctly, when Rochester tells her he is old enough to be her father, he is saying so in an attempt to apologize and excuse himself for being rude and ordering her about.

The age gap between the two never bothered me, probably because I was about 10 when I first read the book, and both Jane and Rochester were just 'grown-ups' to me.

[Ecurb]

The age gap never bothered me, either, although (obviously) many other things about Rochester do bother me.

Regarding Charlotte Bronte's notions about "soul mates" (don't they only appear during certain "life stages"), we'll have to forgive her because without such familial notions her sister Emily would never have written her brilliant poem "Remembrance",

Remembrance
By Emily Brontë

Cold in the earth—and the deep snow piled above thee,
Far, far removed, cold in the dreary grave!
Have I forgot, my only Love, to love thee,
Severed at last by Time's all-severing wave?

Now, when alone, do my thoughts no longer hover
Over the mountains, on that northern shore,
Resting their wings where heath and fern-leaves cover
Thy noble heart forever, ever more?

Cold in the earth—and fifteen wild Decembers,
From those brown hills, have melted into spring:
Faithful, indeed, is the spirit that remembers
After such years of change and suffering!

Sweet Love of youth, forgive, if I forget thee,
While the world's tide is bearing me along;
Other desires and other hopes beset me,
Hopes which obscure, but cannot do thee wrong!

No later light has lightened up my heaven,
No second morn has ever shone for me;
All my life's bliss from thy dear life was given,
All my life's bliss is in the grave with thee.

But, when the days of golden dreams had perished,
And even Despair was powerless to destroy,
Then did I learn how existence could be cherished,
Strengthened, and fed without the aid of joy.

Then did I check the tears of useless passion—
Weaned my young soul from yearning after thine;
Sternly denied its burning wish to hasten
Down to that tomb already more than mine.

And, even yet, I dare not let it languish,
Dare not indulge in memory's rapturous pain;
Once drinking deep of that divinest anguish,
How could I seek the empty world again?

The poem was supposedly written as part of an intricate childhood fantasy game that all of the Bronte children played. It was meant to be written by one of the characters. Charlotte's poetry is OK, but never rises to the level of Emily's.

[kiki1982]

Tangent - the fellows of Oxford and Cambridge colleges up until the mid C19 had to be unmarried and clergymen of the Church of England. (The head of houses could be married. A fellow marrying would have to resign his fellowship, but he could hope to be given a college living, ie become priest of a church of which the college was patron.)

True. That was the case with Mr and later Dr Arabin in the Barchester Chronicles of Trollope. Arabin regretted that he had always thought that he didn't need a wife and children and could live on academia alone... And then faced the issue of needing to live on the salary of a 'base' clergyman if he didn't find a wife with cash...

'Nother tangent - I wonder what the case was with working class men? I imagine that since they were not going to gain any further financial security, they had no reason to delay marriage.

As I understand it, middle-class and upper-class men were supposed to be able to 'keep' their wives. Obviously the women they met also had expectations. The same as we in our day wouldn't like to face abject poverty if we married.
Upper-class and middle-class men, I think had more difficulties than the working classes, because the last class didn't need to pretend, they could just refer to their 'willingness' to work and their lack of drinking. Upper-class and middle-class men needed cash and lots of it to 'keep' their wives in the first place, which meant they usually married rather late (around their thirties) because they needed the time to save money, to wait for their fathers/uncles to die, rise in their profession (to a level of income that was sufficient), could resign their commission in the army or otherwise to find a good (read: rich) match.
Typically a Mr Bingley was rather early in getting married at 22. A Darcy at 27-28 was more typical. But Bingley is portrayed as 'lucky' because his father has died early and he's left him a good income. You also hear people criticise early marriage as a recipe for disaster. In Persuasion you hear the prospective moter-in-law reminiscing about the fact that a long engagement is even worse. And the poor reverend Mr Crawley in Framley Parsonage lives in poverty because he was so daft as to marry far too early.
Once the IR was well underway, working class wives did jobs they could do at home and took in lodgers until their children could go to work to contibute to the household income. Or that's what I understand from genealogical research. Middle/upper class were required to stay at home from the start.

Final tangent - It is so easy to overlook how very young Lydia is. A few months earlier and nowadays Wickham would be accused of paedophilia.

Well, yes, but actually 15 was a a good age for a girl to be 'out'. That doesn't mean she had to marry straight away, but nevertheless it was OK to meet men with that prospect. Also men who were Darcy's age for that matter. However, it needs to be noted that a family with all girls 'out' at once was kind of inappropriate. I believe Jane the eldest was supposed to have been disposed of before Lydia and her younger sisters would have been introduced formally into society.

And now we get to the age gap between Rochester and Jane. I read once that the age gap between them was quite inapproppriate. And actually I think it is. At the age of 40 he would have been able to claim the hand of a woman of 25 maybe, but not the 'cream of the crop' so to say of 19 or 20. Obviously that doesn't mean they aren't a good match, but he's a bit 'past' it when it comes to young and fresh girls. If he could claim one at all, it would have been an appropriate widow or something. Colonel Brandon, for example, is pretty much on the cusp. Although the age gap between him and Marianne is the same as the one between Rochester and Jane, I think he's still seen as fully in the game when it comes to unmarried girls that weren't on the shelf (i.e. whatever has been left over, from about 24-25 years old), although he's considered on the 'older' side. Rochester is altogether past that stage.

[Ecurb]

Mr. Crawley relishes his poverty, picturing himself as another Samson, toiling with the slaves, eyeless in Gaza. Money, after all, was not the only conferrer of status. Here's one of my favorite scenes in "Last Chronicle", in which Archdeacon Grantly (whose son is to marry Grace Crawley) wins Crawley's respect. Crawley is recounting the conversation to his wife:

"I told him that in regard to money matters, as he called them, I had nothing to say. I only trusted that his son was aware that my daughter had no money, and never would have any. "My dear Crawley," the archdeacon said--for of late there seems to have grown up in the world a habit of greater familiarity than that which I think did prevail when last I moved much among men--"my dear Crawley, I have enough for both." "I would we stood on more equal ground," I said. Then as he answered me, he rose from his chair. "We stand," said he, "on the perfect level on which men can meet each other. We are both gentlemen." "Sir," I said, rising also, "from the bottom of the heart I agree with you. I could not have spoken such words; but coming from you who are rich to me am poor, they are honourable to the one and comfortable to the other."'

'And after that?'

'He took down from the shelves a volume of some sermons which his father published many years ago, and presented to me. I have it now under my arm. It hath the old bishop's manuscript notes, which I will study carefully.' And thus the archdeacon had hit his bird on both wings.

[kiki1982]

Ah, yes, that might be true (I'm not there yet), but I distinctly remember Trollope commenting that he and Mrs Crawley had married early and that because of that they were now faced with the abject poverty they were in. And things had already improved because they had moved down gfrom Cornwall (?) and had got a higher income. Howeevr, their straightened circumstances included not being able to fetch a doctor for Mrs Crawley when she is so ill with typhoid that she is in danger of leaving this earth altogether. Nor even was he able to give his children the food and clothing they needed, I recall. Nor indeed the schooling. Not to mention they had debts which were maid by Arabin in secret.

Indeed there is something of pride in his want (he does not take kindly to charity), but nonetheless it's not because he carries his cross with pride so to speak that the circumstances are the best they could be.
Lucy Steele p**ses off when Edward Ferrars is cut out of the will, because he'll only have 200 a year once he's taken orders. Obviously Elenor won't mind it, but it's a far cry from a few 1000, indeed even only 1000 pounds per annum. It's no big house, (good) wine, meat every day (unless suplied for free by the local squire out of kindness), a horse to ride on for the pater familias (forget the fly completely), no nice sherry/port but the cheepest you could get to keep up appearances (like Mr Quiverful). I mean if you went below the 500 pound per annum mark I think life could be pretty tough if you needed to keep up the middle class lifestyle. I'd say there were probably some working-class people who were better off as in those whose wives and daughters worked in the shop.

It's lovely to know what happens, though.

[Ecurb]

If you're still reading "Last Chronicle" (great novel, by the way -- I didn't know you hadn't read it yet) I won't spoil it for you. Suffice to say that a living of 350 pounds per year is considered a vast improvement on Crowley's situation in Hogglestock. I can't remember what that is, exactly, but I think maybe 100 pounds a year (for a family of 5). A pound was probably close to the equivalent of $80-$100 U.S. -- so 350 pounds would be $30,000 a year, plus you get a free house thrown into the bargain. That's not enough to make a man with a family rich -- but it's enough to survive fairly well on (unlike Crowley's Hogglestock living). Crowley couldn't afford to keep a horse. I remember from "Middlemarch" that a good riding horse cost 50-100 pounds (although you could probably get a serviceable one for less, but you'd still need to feed and stable it)

On his 100 pounds a year, Crowley can't afford to buy clothes respectable enough for polite society. On a potential $350 pounds a year, he expects to be able to live comfortably (if not in luxury).

[prendrelemick]

The age gap never bothered me, either, although (obviously) many other things about Rochester do bother me.

Regarding Charlotte Bronte's notions about "soul mates" (don't they only appear during certain "life stages"), we'll have to forgive her because without such familial notions her sister Emily would never have written her brilliant poem "Remembrance",



The poem was supposedly written as part of an intricate childhood fantasy game that all of the Bronte children played. It was meant to be written by one of the characters. Charlotte's poetry is OK, but never rises to the level of Emily's.

To write that at such an age is just incredible.

[Laura Clarke]

Agreed. I've never really looked much into Emily Bronte's works, though I know that many (rightly) admire them. I've heard that her Wuthering Heights is very similar to Jane Eyre in terms of it being a gothic romance, except being considerably darker. Would you recommend it to a Jane Eyre lover?

[kev67]

Agreed. I've never really looked much into Emily Bronte's works, though I know that many (rightly) admire them. I've heard that her Wuthering Heights is very similar to Jane Eyre in terms of it being a gothic romance, except being considerably darker. Would you recommend it to a Jane Eyre lover?

Difficult to say. I preferred it, but I don't love Jane Eyre. I thought it was fairly different to Jane Eyre in style. It's an odd sort of book.

[mona amon]

It is a great book, Laura, but as Kev says, different from Jane Eyre. In fact, except for the liberal use of the lovely Yorkshire dialect in both the books, there are hardly any similarities, and if we did not know it already we'd never have guessed the books were written by sisters. I'd recommend it highly.

[Jackson Richardson]

Wuthering Heights is totally unlike any other Victorian novel, not least in being so short.

It has another similarity with Jane Eyre in the characters of Rochester and Heathcliff who both seem to make women go weak at the knees for the same sort of reason: a brooding, alpha male with a mysterious past.

I wonder if it is significant that in both cases, as far as I remember, the woman only gets them when they have lost their power - in Rochester's case being blind, and in Heathcliff's dead.

But I may not remember aright.