Where have all the poets gone?

[CptDesire]

I read recently that there has been a decline in poetry due to its lack of commercial value, i.e in a modern consumer society it carries little purchasing power. I'm ignorant to contemporary poetry and I'd like some advice on where to start, whom with and particularly modern genres.

Thanks guys,

[YesNo]

I generally read the daily emails coming from Rattle (http://www.rattle.com/poetry/) and I also like the poetry published on Snakeskin (http://www.simmers1.webspace.virginmedia.com/index.html).

As far as genres go, I divide what I read into three groups: (1) metrical poetry, (2) rambling poetry and (3) unintelligible poetry which includes some metrical poetry. I enjoy the first two categories better than the third.

[Jack of Hearts]

Start with Human Chain. From there, who knows?

Contemporary poetry is in a crisis because the contemporary soul is in a crisis. Or did you think that contemporary culture or the MFA actually foster the poetic element?

Even the best of them, even the ones who know how to write and can sometimes obliquely articulate it (average age: 70), produce middling work.

As far as yours truly can tell, nobody yet has pressed against our age in a meaningful way. The romance image of Byron writing against a Grecian pillar; Faulkner and Bukowski, tortured and drunk at the typewriter. The symbolism that we long for, flattened of course from their reality.



1. Never read literary magazines.

2. Your only hope is web forums and weirdos.

3. Sniff the language first. The language is not as important as what the language points at, but can be hugely informative in the first degree (ie, does one continue on?). The language always gives away the phonies, the non-believers.




J

[sandy14]

There has not been a decline in poetry, more a decline in published poetry.

There's plenty of people writing poems, and going along to spoken word events.

However, not many people are reading much in the way of published poetry (in the UK anyway).

There is a poetry circuit out there, it's just that most poets seem to earn money from teaching & performing rather than publishing.

The trend at the moment seems very much to be poetry off the page, rather than on it (not a critique- just an observation.)

[Nikonani]

That aside: MFA programs churn out bull****, poetry is less often taught in schools at the ages required for immersion, people don't read more poetry than they write, etc. Additionally few people who study poetry also study the classic languages that provide, if we want to listen to TS Eliot/ToiletS for a minute, a greater connection to past talent. Most would rather be the solution rather than the platinum, or forego platinum for a plastic. Either way, the connection to tradition is weaker than ever.

(also, to be fair, the united states as a metric is weak -- It's been a while since I've seen anyone in my University library read ANYTHING, let alone POETRY that isn't trash like Plath or Larkin. No idea if Europe's facing the same crisis.)

[YesNo]

I think Plath is overrated. Same with Neruda. I haven't read enough Larkin to really know, but I do remember that one about what parents do to their kids. I haven't got a clue what they do in MFA programs.

However, people do listen to poetry when they listen to song lyrics.

[Nikonani]

However, people do listen to poetry when they listen to song lyrics.

No, they listen to song lyrics when they listen to song lyrics.

[Clopin]

I don't know that song lyrics can't count as poetry (they certainly count as literature since they are written down), but regardless music has certainly subsumed lyric poetry in modern culture. Much like film has completely subsumed theatre.

[Clopin]

Oh and of course you never see Americans read anything! They're all complete idiots down there. That's why no scientific breakthrough has ever been made by an American, and no good books have ever been written by any American writers. Duh.

[Pompey Bum]

I read recently that there has been a decline in poetry due to its lack of commercial value, i.e in a modern consumer society it carries little purchasing power.

Poetry is as poetry does:
Always will and always was.

(In other words, it doesn't have to make the literati happy to be effective).

Double your pleasure
Double your fun
With double good double good
Doublemint gum

I want chicken
I want liver
Meow meow meow meow
Please deliver

My bologna has a first name
It's O-S-C-A-R
My bologna has a second name
It's M-E-Y-E-R
Oh, I love to eat it every day
And if you ask me why I'll say
'Cuz Oscar Meyer has a way
With B-O-L-O-G-N-A!

Like a good neighbor,
State Farm is there.
--B. Manilow

[JCamilo]

I don't know that song lyrics can't count as poetry (they certainly count as literature since they are written down), but regardless music has certainly subsumed lyric poetry in modern culture. Much like film has completely subsumed theatre.

Do like Wittegstein and blame the language. When someone says "read poetry", should say "read poems", as poetry is something else than a form and we find in novels too.

[Nikonani]

I don't know that song lyrics can't count as poetry (they certainly count as literature since they are written down), but regardless music has certainly subsumed lyric poetry in modern culture. Much like film has completely subsumed theatre.

The point is that when written down they rarely (more truthfully, never) reach the heights of standalone poetry. When challenged with the idea of the "adept" songwriter/"poet", the usual probationary caricature is Leonard Cohen, who, let's be honest, writes well below the level of even bad poets such as Poe, Larkin, and Hughes, and at his very best might hit the levee at the Annabelle Lee marker. Certainly nothing to wet panties over, let alone one's feet.

Music may have subsumed written poetry, and film theatre, but that doesn't give any inherent merit to either. Though I think it's very fair to say that while theatre and film are matched, lyrical music is almost certainly inferior to written lyrics in content and form, even at the level of opera libretto.

Oh and of course you never see Americans read anything! They're all complete idiots down there. That's why no scientific breakthrough has ever been made by an American, and no good books have ever been written by any American writers. Duh.

Did I hit a nerve?

[JCamilo]

The point is that when written down they rarely (more truthfully, never) reach the heights of standalone poetry. When challenged with the idea of the "adept" songwriter/"poet", the usual probationary caricature is Leonard Cohen, who, let's be honest, writes well below the level of even bad poets such as Poe, Larkin, and Hughes, and at his very best might hit the levee at the Annabelle Lee marker. Certainly nothing to wet panties over, let alone one's feet.

That if your experience is limited to english or north america. In portuguese, we would be talking about Vinicius de Moraes, a major lyrics writer and as poet, one of the best writers of sonnet in portuguese i know. This even withoutt considering some Byron poems were song lyrics who survive quite well as reading. But the point is quantitative, if someone is reading lyrics (not listening the music) this means peoplee reading a poetic form even if not that good.

[mortalterror]

Nikonani must be Canadian. Leonard Cohen? No way an American mentions that guy before Bob Dylan. Frankly, I think of rappers as modern troubadors and enjoy the kind of wordplay that JayZ, Kanye West, Eminem, Tupac, Public Enemy, Big Daddy Kane, Run DMC, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, or Eric B and Rakim bring to their songs. Jadakiss' song "Why" often reminds me of Christopher Smart's "Jubilate Agno."

For I will consider my Cat Jeoffry.
For he is the servant of the Living God, duly and daily serving him.
For at the first glance of the glory of God in the East he worships in his way.
For is this done by wreathing his body seven times round with elegant quickness.
For then he leaps up to catch the musk, which is the blessing of God upon his prayer.
For he rolls upon prank to work it in.
For having done duty and received blessing he begins to consider himself.
For this he performs in ten degrees.
For first he looks upon his forepaws to see if they are clean.
For secondly he kicks up behind to clear away there.

Yo, why is Jadakiss as hard as it gets
Why is the industry designed to keep the artist in debt
And why them dudes ain't ridin' if there part of your set
And why they never get it poppin' but they party to death
Yea, and why they gon give you life for a murder
Turn around only give you eight months for a burner, it's goin down
Why they sellin' niggaz CD's for under a dime
If it's all love daddy why you come wit your nine
Why my niggaz ain't get that cake
Why is a brother up North better than Jordan
That ain't get that break
Why you ain't stackin' instead of tryin' to be fly
Why is rattin' at an all time high
Why are you even alive
Why they kill Tupac n' Chris
Why at the bar you ain't take straight shots instead of poppin Crist'
Why them bullets have to hit that door
Why did Kobe have to hit that raw
Why he kiss that whore
Why

[Pompey Bum]

Did I hit a nerve?

Nikonani must be Canadian. Leonard Cohen? No way an American mentions that guy before Bob Dylan.

Well, Clopin's a Canadian, too, so I suspect the only nerve Nikonani hit was the ol' pee sea Yank hatred button (and I stand with Clopin on that). How much better not to look down one's nose at others (IMHO).

That if your experience is limited to english or north america. In portuguese, we would be talking about Vinicius de Moraes, a major lyrics writer and as poet, one of the best writers of sonnet in portuguese i know. This even withoutt considering some Byron poems were song lyrics who survive quite well as reading. But the point is quantitative, if someone is reading lyrics (not listening the music) this means peoplee reading a poetic form even if not that good.

Burns' lyric poetry had music to which it could be sung. Lyric poetry itself was originally sung to (or accompanied by) the lyre--which is why Aristotle called the poetic category lyric. So Nikonani is overlooking Pindar, Sappho, and other renowned ancient lyricists (however fragmented their work) such as Alcman, Alcaeus, Anacreon, Stesichorus, Ibycus, Simonides, and Bacchylides. Apparently there is more to lyric literature than Leonard Cohen. ;-)