What are the elements and themes of pre-Tolkien fantasy?

[yudencow]

Hi,
I want to know what are its elements and the differences between Tolkien and what came before it in fantasy.
Thank you.

[Lokasenna]

Well, the single greatest influence on Tolkien was William Morris, who can be argued to be the creator of the modern fantasy novel - though, of course, Morris was responding to medieval romances that, whilst perhaps not fantasies in our modern understanding of the term, are certainly fantastical. Try such novels as The Well at the World's End, The Wood Beyond the World, The House of the Wolfings, The Roots of the Mountains, and The Water of the Wondrous Isle.

Other works/writers that were a major influence on Tolkien include the Finnish Kalevala, E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros, Lord Dunsany (particularly his The Gods of Pegāna and The King of Elfland's Daughter - and, of course, the music of Richard Wagner (and not just the Ring Cycle). There is, furthermore, vast amounts of medieval writings that can be seen as the basis of modern fantasy literature - a full list would be huge.

In terms of the elements, you're going to have to be a little more specific - what sort of things are you after?

[PeterL]

You should also look at the works of Lord Dunsany. I haven't read him recently enough to make much comment, but his writings were somewhat mystical in an odd way.

[yudencow]

Thank you for the comments.

I mean by elements what types of events, characters, places and objects you are most likely to encounter that are not the post-Tolkien fantasy that we all know. And what does appear in both?

[Chris 73]

There's always the pulp 'Weird Tales' fantasy of the 30's, Robert E Howard and Edgar Rice Burroughs. Lurid escapism and exotic adventure, certainly very popular in a smaller world. Also the horror of the period was always struck me as closely related to its fantasy contemporaries with the existential dread of HP Lovecrafts Cthulu mythos and (though I've not read him myself) Robert W Chambers The King In Yellow, recently referenced on HBO's True Detective series.

[PeterL]

Thank you for the comments.

I mean by elements what types of events, characters, places and objects you are most likely to encounter that are not the post-Tolkien fantasy that we all know. And what does appear in both?

The basic elements of post-Tolkein fantasy were also in pre-Tolkein fantasy, but they were expressed differently, and the underlying themes were more general, and the elves were more like the traditional elves. You might want to read some of Lord Dunsany's works; some should be available in a good public library. The King of Elfland's Daughter and the Don Rodriguez: Chronicles of Shadow Valley were quite memorable, but they were not Tolkeinesque. Don Rodriquez is sort of Sword & Sorcery. I have only read a few things by Lord Dunsany, but they were worht a second reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cience_fiction
family website:
http://www.dunsany.net/18th.htm

If you are interested in non-tolkeinesque fantasy, then you might also want to read some of the stories and novels by Fritz Leiber.

[Ecurb]

It seems to me that it is only post-Tolkien that "fantasy" became associated exclusively with "swords and sorcery". Even in this thread, people are mentioning the "swords and sorcery" books written prior to Tolkien (my favorite, listed by Lokasenna, is "The Worm Ouroboros", although it begins awkwardly).

However, the most famous (and best) pre-Tolkien fantasy novels were not swords and sorcery novels. Here are some:

The Jungle Books -- Kipling. These share some of the high adventure and romance of sword and sorcery novels, but in a different setting. Great stories.

Peter Pan -- Barrie. Childrens' fantasy was popular. I won't include shorter books (Beatrix Potter).

The Wind and the Willows -- Grahame. Talking animal fantasies that are far more domestic and civilized than The Jungle Books.

Winnie the Pooh -- Milne -- More talking animals, and a different mood and setting than either listed above.

Mary Poppins -- Travers.

Dracula -- Stoker (Frankenstein might be more Science Fiction).

The Wizard of Oz -- Baum (The books are fun, but badly written, which makes it difficult to read them aloud.)

There are others. Some of my favorites are E. Nesbit's (although none are as good as "The Treasure Seekers", but what is?)

Of course the "Sword and Sorcery" genre is derived from Medieval epics -- Morte d'Arthur; Orlando Furioso, Sigurd, Beowulf and Greek Epics, the Iliad and the Odyssey. Some of the fantasies I listed above are more like folk tales and fairy tales than epics.