On the Road by Jack Kerouac

[hypatia_]

At one point, there are two friends, Dean and Carlo, who have a ritual of sitting in a bed facing each other, legs crossed. they take benzos, and speak to each other directly and 100% truthfully. they would recall any interactions they had with each other since their last time doing this, and discuss things that puzzled them about each other, decisions each other had made, etc.

Excerpt:

Carlo said "And just as we were crossing Wazee I wanted to tell you about how I felt of your frenzy with the midgets and it was just then, remembered out that old bum with the baggy pants and said he looked just like your father?"

"Yes, yes, of course I remember; and not only that but it started a train of my own, something real wild that I had to tell you, I'd forgotten it, now you just reminded me of it..." and two new points were born. They hashed these over. Then Carlo asked Dean if he was honest and specifically if he was being honest with him in the bottom of his soul.

What do you think of interactions like this? I feel like they don't happen anymore; people are too afraid to talk truthfully to each other when it comes to nothing in particular. I think it's so cool what Kerouac describes.

[PeterL]

Speed raps don't necessarily have anything to do with anything except moving one's mouth' although they can sound interesting.

[hypatia_]

but moving your mouth means you're saying something

[sandy14]

I'm not sure. Folk on drugs often talk lots thinking that everything they say is profound, when to listeners (particularly those not on drugs) much of it is incredibly boring and contains no insight whatsoever. I first read On the Road as a sprightly youth, and thought "yeah". it is an energetic text, and does give you itchy feet. Reading the text twenty years later, as a not so sprightly youth, some of the things Kerouac recounts are perhaps the folly of youth. I remember some friends tried the total honesty thing and it got boring. In addition what people say, even if they honestly believe it, isn't always what they do.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Kerouac. His depiction of events captures the vitality of youth and it rings true. Kerouac tries something similar in is tapes scripts in Visions of Cody, which is an interesting concept, but not a particularly easy read.

[chrisvia]

You don't think this happens any more? I have a friend who, every time he drinks too much begins talking to me just like the characters in this Kerouac scene! I think it stills happens amongst people; it just perhaps isn't as deliberate and isn't recorded in the literature of our day.

[hypatia_]

I'm not sure. Folk on drugs often talk lots thinking that everything they say is profound, when to listeners (particularly those not on drugs) much of it is incredibly boring and contains no insight whatsoever. I first read On the Road as a sprightly youth, and thought "yeah". it is an energetic text, and does give you itchy feet. Reading the text twenty years later, as a not so sprightly youth, some of the things Kerouac recounts are perhaps the folly of youth. I remember some friends tried the total honesty thing and it got boring. In addition what people say, even if they honestly believe it, isn't always what they do.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Kerouac. His depiction of events captures the vitality of youth and it rings true. Kerouac tries something similar in is tapes scripts in Visions of Cody, which is an interesting concept, but not a particularly easy read.

Yup that all makes sense to me. I found his stream of consciousness style refreshing and inspiring, but I can see how you have to view it from a certain lense.

You don't think this happens any more? I have a friend who, every time he drinks too much begins talking to me just like the characters in this Kerouac scene! I think it stills happens amongst people; it just perhaps isn't as deliberate and isn't recorded in the literature of our day.

Yeah that's true. I suppose I just long for more conversation like that rather than the fake bull**** I hear day in and day out.

[chrisvia]

I will add that I, too, was particularly taken with the urgency and mystical heightening of the literature produced by the Beat Generation.

[hypatia_]

I will add that I, too, was particularly taken with the urgency and mystical heightening of the literature produced by the Beat Generation.

What other beat literature would you recommend? This is my first experience with it.

[sandy14]

Desolation Angels and Dharma Bums by Kerouac are the next two I'd recommend. Desolation Angels is my favourite Kerouac book. On the Road was fine, but he had found his stride by the time he got to Des. Angels & Dharma Bums. I'd also take a look at Howl & other poems by Allen Ginsberg and Happy Birthday of Death or Gasoline by Coroso. There are recordings of Ginsberg reading Howl which are always worth a listen too.

There are also some good beat biographies out there - This is the Beat Generation by James Campbell is a pretty accessible one - there are others out there, but I think this is one of the better ones to start with as it is a jolly good read and gives a good overview.

There is also Hunter S Thompson's Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas - which is heavily influenced by On the Road. There's also Rimbaud & Baudelaire to check out.

Most beat films are not so good, the best one I've seen is Howl, which gives an idea of the historical context of Howl and how the ideas expressed in beat literature were regarded as shocking in their day. Like most dramas it takes dramatic licence, but it is passable, but make sure you read/listen to the poem first.

William Burroughs' Naked Lunch would be my next port of call, followed by Alexander Trocchi's Cain's Book. I have found William Burroughs the most difficult of the beat writers to engage with, but also the most rewarding. I had to read his stuff several times before I "got" it. The biographies helped as well as hearing Burroughs read excerpts which I think helped me pick up on the acerbic wit behind the Naked Lunch.

[chrisvia]

What other beat literature would you recommend? This is my first experience with it.

Sandy14 has made some excellent suggestions, covering all the pillars. The Beat Reader, edited by Ann Charters, who also has a great biography of Kerouac, is a solid anthology. I'm partial to Kerouac's novels and poems because it was a focus of mine in grad school.

Enjoy!

[hypatia_]

Desolation Angels and Dharma Bums by Kerouac are the next two I'd recommend. Desolation Angels is my favourite Kerouac book. On the Road was fine, but he had found his stride by the time he got to Des. Angels & Dharma Bums. I'd also take a look at Howl & other poems by Allen Ginsberg and Happy Birthday of Death or Gasoline by Coroso. There are recordings of Ginsberg reading Howl which are always worth a listen too.

There are also some good beat biographies out there - This is the Beat Generation by James Campbell is a pretty accessible one - there are others out there, but I think this is one of the better ones to start with as it is a jolly good read and gives a good overview.

There is also Hunter S Thompson's Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas - which is heavily influenced by On the Road. There's also Rimbaud & Baudelaire to check out.

Most beat films are not so good, the best one I've seen is Howl, which gives an idea of the historical context of Howl and how the ideas expressed in beat literature were regarded as shocking in their day. Like most dramas it takes dramatic licence, but it is passable, but make sure you read/listen to the poem first.

William Burroughs' Naked Lunch would be my next port of call, followed by Alexander Trocchi's Cain's Book. I have found William Burroughs the most difficult of the beat writers to engage with, but also the most rewarding. I had to read his stuff several times before I "got" it. The biographies helped as well as hearing Burroughs read excerpts which I think helped me pick up on the acerbic wit behind the Naked Lunch.

Would you say some of these works are more philosophical in nature than On the Road? I enjoyed OTR but at times I wished Kerouac would delve deeper into what it meant to be a Beat. Not just the events, but the feelings.

Also thank you chrisvia, I will check out the Beat Reader. I enjoy Kerouac's poems as well. My favorite work by him so far is Some of the Dharma. A ton of poems, and still very 'stream-of-consciousness'-like.

[sandy14]

Both books develop Kerouac's (and other characters) interest in Buddism. Part of American literature started to look East instead of West for ideas

Mainly American artists and academics started to look across the Pacific for inspiration (the Imagists had started this before WW2). As a result there were a lot of Buddhist ideas being discussed and people were travelling to Japan (Snyder) and India (Ginsberg) to explore. This is featured in Dharma Bums in the conversations between Japhy (based on Gary Snyder,) and Ray. Ginsberg's Planet News also develops this as this contains ideas from his travels around the world.

So to answer your question - yes, Kerouac does elaborate upon his life's philosophy which is part of the idea of the Beat(ific). It also shows Kerouac travelling around America and meeting more interesting characters which show alternative view points.

"Being a beat" is a bit of a tricky subject, as "The Beat Generation" was part a marketing tool. Kerouac certainly did not enjoy being called "The King of the Beats." for long. It was a label that Kerouac tried to live down. You'll see this in Kerouac's novel Big Sur, where he explains this and rejects the label. Leave Big Sur till last though, as it will make more sense after you've read the other two.

It's a bit complicated, but that only really happens when you move into comparing the biographical and fictional details. The books stand on their own, and it's best to enjoy them as fictional works based upon real life events. If you are still interested after reading the books, then go to the biographies.

[chrisvia]

The Portable Beat Reader is great. It includes Kerouac's famous list "Belief and Technique for Modern Prose" and Norman Mailer's essay "The White Negro," which was his attempt at defining the Beat Generation. As for Kerouac, he saw himself the founder and defender of the Beats, and more than once got angry at others who attempted to stake their claim on defining and pioneering the "movement."

Once again Sandy14 is paying out great insight. Buddhism is a huge foundation of Kerouac's belief system, though it remained interestingly mixed with his Catholic upbringing.

Looking on my bookshelves, my other suggestion, especially if you like the fervency and immediacy of their language when conversing with one another, is the recently published compilation of the letters between Kerouac and Ginsberg. Highly recommended!

[hypatia_]

Yes I have read Kerouac hated the "Beat" label, and I completely get it. Labels in general are stupid because they attempt to define a person's beliefs in one word, which is pretty hard to do. Often times they just create incorrect interpretations.

Currently I am reading a collection of poems by Ginsberg and Eric Drooker? Some of them I hate and some of them I love; thus far.

Thank you for all the suggestions! You guys really know your stuff with these guys!

[PeterL]

Yes I have read Kerouac hated the "Beat" label, and I completely get it. Labels in general are stupid because they attempt to define a person's beliefs in one word, which is pretty hard to do. Often times they just create incorrect interpretations.

Currently I am reading a collection of poems by Ginsberg and Eric Drooker? Some of them I hate and some of them I love; thus far.

Thank you for all the suggestions! You guys really know your stuff with these guys!

It is my opinion that the only one worth reading was William S. Burroughs, but try to avoid what he did using the "cut-up" method.