Nihilism

[Ser Nevarc]

I proposed Descartes a fabricator of false values.

What false values?

[cacian]

Nihilism is most certainly not "nothing but denial." It is the assertion that something unproveable doesn't exist.

Assertion is to be 100% certain that something isn't.
Doubting is not being able to put a finger on something. It is neither here or there.
Something that one cannot prove exists does not mean it is unprovable.
On the contrary. It proves that one has failed to understand it.
The failure is on the person on who does not attain its understanding and not the other way around.
Objectively the issue is with the person themselves.
Doubting Thomas comes to mind.
Jesus existed but whether he came back to life or not is not the issue. It does not really matter in the schemes of things.
The important thing is that it highlighted a fact that Thomas did not believe it.
That is the whole point. Not whether Jesus did or didn't but because Thomas doubted.
That is the only assertion there is.
The rest is irrelevant. I am not going to run after the wind just because I think I can.

Read Descarte's Meditations for a much better explanation but: We cannot in any way prove that our existences are anything more than dreams.

Look up definition of dream.
To dream to be asleep and nothing more to it.
Humans are awake and then they sleep. We know that because of the sun rising and setting. That is enough for me. Night time for sleeping. This is a fact.
Being awake contradicts the very definition of dreaming which requires someone to be asleep firts. REM and all that.
One cannot be beating around the bush. Once a definition has been established around one fact I cannot then turn around and then try and reinvent it. It looks very silly.

You seem to think of the nihilist as being a person who is simply in fearful denial. Rather I think of a nihilist as one who doubts (very extremely).

Yes I do think that.
The problems with people is that they push themsleves out of their own equatiuon and project their own intolerances or weaknesses in this case denial of something.
Doubting is an internal thinking process that suggests the person cannot make head or tail of their own existence and their own surrounding environment.
The lack of understanding reinforces negativity and so instead of accepting their failure they project it onto something else to make themsleves feel better.
Hence nihilism. Its root cause is selfdoubting hence denial of of onself towards something.

The other thing about nihilism is that it does not end there.
Even if we say one has asserted that something does not exist they will still state the unbelievable and not believe they have asserted it.
It is a catch22.
They would ne be call nihilist if they suddenly stoped from doubting.

[Ser Nevarc]

Hi cacian,

Look up definition of dream.
To dream to be asleep and nothing more to it.
Humans are awake and then they sleep. We know that because of the sun rising and setting. That is enough for me. Night time for sleeping. This is a fact.
Being awake contradicts the very definition of dreaming which requires someone to be asleep firts. REM and all that.
One cannot be beating around the bush. Once a definition has been established around one fact I cannot then turn around and then try and reinvent it. It looks very silly.

But man, dreaming is so much more than sleeping. Dreams are important correspondences with our actual lives. They decieve our senses with often terrifying authenticity, build connections our conscious minds never could, reveal (as Freud believed) our truest desires. We can learn a lot from our dreams. Your sleeptime brain, cacian, is just as much your brain as your awake brain. You shouldn't disregard it as nonsense.

The sun does not rise and set for the purpose that we know when to rise and when to sleep. Why would you think that? We perceive the sun to rise and set because we happen to exist on a rotating sphere. We evolved to take advantage of the daytime we have. And you cannot say that "nighttime is for sleeping, that is fact." Beings can wake and sleep whenever the hell they want to (or rather, however they are genetically programmed to). Ever seen bats?

Assertion is to be 100% certain that something isn't.
Doubting is not being able to put a finger on something. It is neither here or there.
Something that one cannot prove exists does not mean it is unprovable.
On the contrary. It proves that one has failed to understand it.
The failure is on the person on who does not attain its understanding and not the other way around.
Objectively the issue is with the person themselves.
Doubting Thomas comes to mind.
Jesus existed but whether he came back to life or not is not the issue. It does not really matter in the schemes of things.
The important thing is that it highlighted a fact that Thomas did not believe it.
That is the whole point. Not whether Jesus did or didn't but because Thomas doubted.
That is the only assertion there is.
The rest is irrelevant. I am not going to run after the wind just because I think I can.
. . . .
Yes I do think that.
The problems with people is that they push themsleves out of their own equatiuon and project their own intolerances or weaknesses in this case denial of something.
Doubting is an internal thinking process that suggests the person cannot make head or tail of their own existence and their own surrounding environment.
The lack of understanding reinforces negativity and so instead of accepting their failure they project it onto something else to make themsleves feel better.
Hence nihilism. Its root cause is selfdoubting hence denial of of onself towards something.

The other thing about nihilism is that it does not end there.
Even if we say one has asserted that something does not exist they will still state the unbelievable and not believe they have asserted it.
It is a catch22.
They would ne be call nihilist if they suddenly stoped from doubting.

The reason I mention Descartes is that he proposed that dreaming gives us a reason to doubt reality. Because of dreams, we know that our senses deceive us. Accordingly, we can doubt just about anything our senses tell us.

The nihilist doubts, but this doubt should not be seen as a fault, as you see it. Doubt is not the inability to understand, nor is it caused by fear. It is a skepticism, and often demonstrates a real maturity. Why jump into believing something if you don't see enough evidence?

It is not very becoming of you to say that a nihilistic person is trying to deflect their own self-doubts onto everything else. It's just a different perspective, and is clearly one which you do not share, and therefore do not understand. Try not to make those generalizations, especially if they are a) unfounded and b) are demeaning.

Look forward to discussing!

[Oedipus]

If people were left to decide what was wrong and right for themselves the world would look a lot worse than how it looks now. Nihilism is a very bad idea.

Appeal to consequences, fallacious.