Is a perfect world possible?

[luhsun]

A perfect world is not possible,because it keep on changing. Our mere presence, interaction or even awareness of the world and others around us will introduce changes to the world.
Humanity is not perfect- my opinion, and this is obviously an opinion as science is about "so far we are not able to prove our hypothesis is wrong-therefore it is our opinion that this is the current paradigm we should currently believe in-- vs our hypothesis has many proofs it is correct) is that the correct word for human is mot perfect but adaptive. The cognitive theories believe many thoughts and actions became habitual and automatic because they worked well in the past. If now or in the future, these habits became maladaptive, we get distressed and hopefully change to a new equilibrium.

[Aceda]

Man is imperfect and for man to create a perfect world is impossible. But then again all our human make up is all very different therefore what we all see as 'perfect' maybe be seen in a different light to another. I don't think many people from any era would see the world as perfect unless they were looking through a bag of icing sugar. We still have problems to worry about like pollution, solving murders, dying species and new privacy issues.

[PeterL]

Man is imperfect

Speak for yourself. If you have a poor selfimage, that doesn't mean that eeryone does.

and for man to create a perfect world is impossible.

This is irrelevant, because the Gods create worlds, and the Gods can create perfect things. In fact, everything that the Gods create is perfect, because the Gods don't do anything less.

[jcabello1]

God wanted a perfect earth, but Adam and Eve sinned because they gave into temptation when tried by the devil/evil force. That sin is something that we inherit by nurture and nature. We know that we are limited, and that resources will eventually run out. God made enough resources for the earth to be eternal, we have just hurried to use them up and get to them before others, instead of evenly distributing. In this imperfect world our lives are threatened and as people we have a strong desire to live eternally. Our earth will not just over time get better; rather it is God's way of showing us and every witness, that the world cannot have another ruler and still be eternal and perfect. Eventually we will use up all of the resources and the earth will be destroyed due to our shortcomings. Luckily, if we looked to God for guidance, asked for our sins to be forgiven, and were willing to put in the same amount in effort, as we took out of the earth; or believing that we have to do good to get the good, then we will be able to live in the perfect world with God, because he will be able to trust that we will not do what Adam, Eve, and Hades did all those years ago.

[PeterL]

The Gods made a perfet world. It must be perfect, because They made it, and that defines perfection.

[Pompey Bum]

The Gods made a perfet world. It must be perfect, because They made it, and that defines perfection.

I'm afraid that's a non-sequitur. It does not follow that a perfect creator could only create a perfect world. On the contrary, if a creator were unable to create an imperfect world, that would be a limitation and so a bar to perfection. Also, what makes you think that these gods you mention are perfect? If you mean the Greek gods, they are neither morally perfect (Zeus, for example, is a rapist and the others aren't much better), nor are they free from limitations. They are, for example, unable to change their course once they have sworn to one, even if they want to. And if you mean the Mesopotamian gods, they're even worse. And don't even get me started on Chinese pantheon.

And what makes you think that these gods even exist? I don't wish to put words into your mouth, so tell me: is your argument really that the world is perfect because perfect gods created it, and see, here's the perfect world as evidence, which perfect gods must have created because it is perfect like them? If so, I'm afraid it's a tautology.

You have done little to advance your case for a perfect world.

[ennison]

I sure as Hell hope not but dream-on pal!

[Pompey Bum]

God wanted a perfect earth, but Adam and Eve sinned because they gave into temptation when tried by the devil/evil force.

Then why did He create the nasty part east of Eden (where Adam and Eve ended up)? Did He already know that He was going to send them there? If God is omniscient (all knowing), then how could He not have known? Or are you implying that God is not omnipotent (all powerful)--because how could an omnipotent God not be omniscient, too? Furthermore, if God is both omniscient and uncreated (as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all attest), then he must always have known how things were going to work out with humankind. He must have created them knowing full well that they were going to fall into suffering and death is a grim and harsh world?

So how can you claim that it was God who wanted a perfect world? He seems to have wanted a perfect garden (and hey, who doesn't?), but if we take the story of Eden as historical rather than mythopoetic (as you are doing), then he intentionally created a harsh world in which to keep humankind before he even created us. Adam and Eve didn't have anything to do with that (assuming that they even existed).

And while we are on the subject, where did you get the idea that the talking snake in the Eden story was the devil? Even if we take the Book of Genesis as infallibly true (as you seem to be doing), doesn't the text explicitly state that the snake was one of the wild animals that God created (albeit the sneakiness)? I know everyone says that the snake was the devil, but trust me, it's not in the Bible. The Medieval Church took the idea from Augustine, who in turn had taken it from Origen. Both lived more than a thousand years after that part of Genesis was written.

That sin is something that we inherit by nurture and nature.

I actually have no problem with the idea that human nature is basically corrupt (even, as Luther thought, fundamentally depraved). But for the record we do not know that it is inherited from the sin of Adam. Personally I suspect that original sin is a consequence of natural selection and the animal nature of human life on earth. But at least we share the common ground of acknowledging its existence.

We know that we are limited, and that resources will eventually run out. God made enough resources for the earth to be eternal, we have just hurried to use them up and get to them before others, instead of evenly distributing.

Huh? They're earth's resources were not always finite? And humans did something to make them finite? Or are you still talking about Eden? We don't live in Eden, right? At least according to the Bible we don't. Instead we live difficult lives in an imperfect world beyond Eden. But as shown above, if we accept The Adam and Eve story as historical, then that world was God's idea before there even was an Adam.

In this imperfect world our lives are threatened and as people we have a strong desire to live eternally.

Couldn't that desire merely be an aspect of the biological imperative of survival? As such, couldn't it be a product of Original Sin (or natural selection) in itself? Out of curiosity, what is your view of selfish desires in the general ethical scheme of things?

Our earth will not just over time get better; rather it is God's way of showing us and every witness, that the world cannot have another ruler and still be eternal and perfect.

You're losing me here. You mean another divine ruler (as opposed, say, to another president or prime minister)? You are a monotheist, right?

Eventually we will use up all of the resources and the earth will be destroyed due to our shortcomings.

Now hold on there! Honestly, I've read the Bible and that's not how it ends. The Son of Man returns in glory (disguised for a time as a seven-eyed sheep), and there is a lot of trouble, but the good guys eventually win. I swear it's not that we run out of fossil fuels.

Luckily, if we looked to God for guidance, asked for our sins to be forgiven, and were willing to put in the same amount in effort, as we took out of the earth; or believing that we have to do good to get the good, then we will be able to live in the perfect world with God, because he will be able to trust that we will not do what Adam, Eve, and Hades did all those years ago.

Hades? Now the snake is Hades? I thought the gods of the nations didn't really exist. I'm sure the Bible says that a bunch of times. Isaiah something-or-other. I know it's there.

Anyway, your works theology--putting in the effort we took out, doing good to get good, etc.--runs contrary to your position on human nature. What makes you think that a fallen humanity is capable of action good enough to merit it's own redemption? Wasn't that the point of the Crucifixion? That we couldn't do it by ourselves? That it look God's infinite Grace and sacrifice on a Cross--not a few environmental projects that may only serve to make us feel pleased with ourselves?

Look, you seem like a really sweet person. And believe it or not, I'm not trying to upset your faith. If you are a young person (but even if you aren't), I want to suggest that you consider the studying ancient texts in their original languages, and if you they interest you, maybe theology itself (with a healthy dose of historical and textual criticism). Some of the objections that I raised above are very old and a variety of theological solutions have been proposed for them. But do you think that just coming in here and preaching (for now, at least) is going to accomplish much more than exciting the Internet atheists to beat their chests at you? Then you can post some Biblical verses back at them, they can snicker at you, and you can all feel really good about yourselves (in a selfish or at least self-satisfied sort of way). Instead, I propose that you learn more before you try to convert others. It's just a suggestion.

I know that this was your first post here, and I don't want to scare you away. I find theology fun (I have a very offbeat take on it) and I'd love to talk with you more about it if we can find a way to respect differences. I'm on the road a bit these days, but I hope to talk with you again at some point.