Alan Watts - The Double Bind

[hypatia_]

I'm borrowing a quote from another thread because it is what made me think of Alan Watts:

I often fantasize about living in our area prior to European settlement....the sheer natural beauty of forest, mountains and sea, and the abundance of edible plants and fish and game. I've spent some time in the wilderness and I think I'd like to live in such a time and place.

Isn't it strange that to go back to the wilderness and live without modern society has a....certain connotation? Alan Watts talks a lot about how society conditions us from birth to need it, while at the same time convincing us that we should strive to be an individual, a concealed contradiction known as a "double-bind."

"Society is our extended mind and body. Yet the very society from which the individual is inseparable is using its whole irresistible force to persuade the individual that he is indeed separate!"

He phrases his view of the double-bind in regard to "the game" of society here:

"The first rule of this game is that it is not a game.
Everyone must play.
You must love us.
You must go on living.
Be yourself, but play a consistent and acceptable role.
Control yourself and be natural.
Try to be sincere."

And goes on to say that because the double-bind is a game with self-contradictory rules, it is doomed to perpetual self-frustration.

I'm not saying he is right or wrong, or that it applies to every community, but what are your thoughts on this, or Alan Watts in general?

[Volya]

All I know of Alan Watts is I've seen a bunch of youtube videos with him narrating.
Often the videos have very nice sentiments (like one I saw on Facebook about not worrying about money and just doing what you enjoy), but it would be quite impractical if everyone chose to follow his advice.

[cafolini]

That double bind is as old as history and far beyond history in the past. That's where Watts is a bore dressed as explorer. LOL

[hypatia_]

Can you provide an example of the double-bind being used in ancient history? I am curious, because I am sure it exists all over the place. It seems Alan Watts and Gregory Bateson were influential in studying double-bind theory in the 1950's.

In any case, the thread is about the assertion he is making. Do you think it is true?

[cafolini]

Can you provide an example of the double-bind being used in ancient history? I am curious, because I am sure it exists all over the place. It seems Alan Watts and Gregory Bateson were influential in studying double-bind theory in the 1950's.

In any case, the thread is about the assertion he is making. Do you think it is true?

The fatal history of the monkey and the Giraffe.
Please give me a kiss in the mouth
and then don't ommit down there.

[hypatia_]

The fatal history of the monkey and the Giraffe.
Please give me a kiss in the mouth
and then don't ommit down there.

I don't understand the reference.

[russellb]

The 'double bind' concept was used by R D Laing as part of his social model of schizophrenia. This might (though not necessarily correctly) be taken as 'blaming the mother' Being placed in a double bind implies some external social context. Laing spoke of a theoretical limit, that is of a 'total social world system.' To say that that this is placed in a double bind may amount to saying that God is schizogenic. Actually i think this might help me understand the last 20 years of my life. What do they call it? 'insight.' then again, perhaps not...

[hypatia_]

The 'double bind' concept was used by R D Laing as part of his social model of schizophrenia. This might (though not necessarily correctly) be taken as 'blaming the mother' Being placed in a double bind implies some external social context. Laing spoke of a theoretical limit, that is of a 'total social world system.' To say that that this is placed in a double bind may amount to saying that God is schizogenic. Actually i think this might help me understand the last 20 years of my life. What do they call it? 'insight.' then again, perhaps not...

as in, people become schizophrenic when they start living by a contradiction?

[cacian]

I am not sure contradiction is the right word.
let's take an example:
describe the act of jumping bearing in mind there could only be one way.
like there is only one way of eating and that is through the mouth.

[russellb]

as in, people become schizophrenic when they start living by a contradiction?

living 'in' a contradiction would be a better way of putting it i think