Fromm vs Freud on Goethe

[Tokusan genes]

I've got the gist of Fromm's interpreatation re what Zuleika's saying and what Hatem is saying but...would anyone like to interpret (paraphrase) all the lines from Zuleika's last stanza and all of'em in the last stanza from Hatem (poem by Goethe)...stanzas which I will direct you to below? Was trying to link you to the exact ones, but encountered problems I think due to this link...as explained below.

That's right, everyone's quoting, but no one's citing the thing's title. The segment (separate poem?) is probably from Goethe's "West-Eastern Divan" or the subsection (of what?) that comprises "The Book of Zuleika."

Yeah, I was trying to post a Google Books link to Fromm's book in which he relates the poem in question. Seems such a link may be stopping the post. Folks, I'm out of time for the moment but you can find this poem on page 46 of Fromm's "Greatness and Limitations of Freud's Thought," with Fromm's interpretation going on over to page 47. Otherwise, I'll try to type the thing up & post later.

Amazingly little out there on this poem [via Google at least] important to Freud & Fromm. Google did find me an author [pdf] who relates who some say Zuleika & Hatem represent and...who also BTW gives a rundown (very germane to all this) on the literary circle out of which Clapton's "Layla" was birthed, specifically the Layla & Majnoon thing...as some of you may have learned before I did (today). You can find the latter using Google Advanced Search, the above names, and the phrase "twinning-coraz."

[Tokusan genes]

Ok, if you read'em, here they are again [Goethe wrote this stuff way, way, way back there]:


Zuleika talking

There's not a life we need refuse
If our true self we do not miss,
There's not a thing we may not lose
If one remain the man one is.



Hatem talking (just since I posted the above I think I may have some additional ideas on these lines)

The day with Hatem all were over
And yet I should but change my state;
Swift, should she grace some happy lover,
In him I were incorporate.



Yeah, I imagine it's clearer in German.

Zuleika must be talking about both sexes, but I guess the interpretation Fromm had [did he speak German?] had her talking about people in general as "men." Freud said the guy she described was narcissist, while Fromm said Goethe meant Zuleika to describe a man of integrity. Well, for having integrity...why is he likely to lose all? Isn't that there too? Fromm didn't comment on that.

Hatem's stuff just seems like pure fantasy.