In order to do this, we will need more oil, i.e., the equivalent of one Saudi Arabia every seven years, according to the IEA. Unfortunately, conventional production has peaked, and we can't replace it easily as other sources of energy have lower energy returns.Originally Posted by Darcy88
The catch is that prosperity which involves higher resource consumption offsets resource savings due to lower birth rates, which takes place given prosperity.
In that case, for the rest of the world to follow industrialized countries, we will need around three more earths.
Urban gardening, insects and algae. Water is the only thing I'm really concerned about.
“To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it.”
- Kurt Vonnegut
Hopefully we'll have colonized another planet by the time this one becomes uninhabitable.
The urban setting itself requires significant amounts of resources. Insects are also dependent on ecosystems. The energy returns for algae are small.
With that, we face not only problems with water but also with oil, food, and even phosphorus and uranium.
As the IEA put it, even less complex projects such as moving to other sources of energy will take decades, and economies should have started at least a decade ago, as conventional oil production has already peaked, and surplus energy and resources will be needed for transition.
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Industrial Nations are used to threatening their adversaries with Military Might and Nuclear Weapons.
How are they going to deal with Climate which is getting more and more extreme day by day???
Are they going to nuke Hurricanes and Tornadoes too???
Are they going to nuke Droughts and Floods too???
The west used to think droughts and floods are problems of Asia, Africa and poor countries of the world....They are now occurring in the west too.
The day is not far when Agriculture will collapse worldwide due to extreme and irregular weather.
What is man going to eat???.....He has already decimated fish in the oceans.
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Industrial Society is a lunatic society which talks about Justice, Welfare, Morality and Equality after torturing, slaughtering and decimating millions of species and destroying Forests, Rivers and Oceans.
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Jobs or Environment???
Economy or Environment???
This is just unbelievable.....The very fact that man needs to debate this issue shows how insane Industrial Society is.
Without environment man will not even exist.
Jobs have destroyed Environment....Urban Jobs have destroyed Environment.
Economy has destroyed Environment....Millions of other species don't need an economy to live on earth....Human species is the only lunatic one which thinks it needs one.
Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a disease and insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.
Billions of pages of discussion is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.
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Industrial Society is a lunatic society that takes pride in keeping its cities clean but is not ashamed of littering the entire planet with Industrial Waste.
The entire planet has turned into a Landfill, Garbage Dump, Toxic Dump.
Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and contaminated with billions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.
Industrial Activity produces three kinds of Industrial Waste......Solid, Liquid and Gaseous......There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - Air, Water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where it can go.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.
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Stop Education.....Close Down Universities.
Stop Urban Work.....Close Down the Cities.
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Hmmm yes, we always use nukes to solve our problems don't we... Any examples other than Japan?
You're an over-reacting hippy who wants the world to live in huts made of grass and eat mushrooms, but still wants to be able to use a computer at the same time. You can't have both, if you want to try and stop the 'destruction of mind and environment' then get off the internet and so something in REALITY.
I am pretty much moved by this thread and of course environment or ecosystem is damaged and we are triggering the devastation of all that sustain life. Of course humans are the only animals that are engaged in destroying the natural environment. But humans are the only animals that have also advanced to this extent to think that we must protect our environment. This is an ethical question and of course the protection of natural environment is more important than the development of science and technology. However it is hard to say scientific and technological advances have not added value. The span of life increased tremendously and we have been able to cope with population growth through an intensive farming system.
Can we stop this? This ever unstoppable progression and advancement in science and technology? Who is to take the initiative? We are simply theorizing our philosophy but who can come out radically and revolutionarily to reverse the course of history?
I like the very idea of protecting our environment but I doubt anyone can turn up to take this Herculean job.
You should be reading more carefully.....I wrote about threatening to use Nuclear Weapons, not actually using them.
Technophiles who ridicule Luddites are the biggest fools.
Luddism is the normality, Industrial Technology is an anomaly.
This world was luddite for millions of years.....Industrial Machines have existed for only 250 years.
Luddism did not destroy Biodiversity and Ecosystems for millions of years.....Industrial Machines have destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years [Actually in just 100 years since most of the world became industrialized only in the last 100 years].
Animals did not use Industrial Machines for millions of years and did not destroy environment for millions of years.
Hunter_Gatherer Society did not use Industrial Machines for 1 million of years and did not destroy environment for 1 million years.
Agrarian Society did not use Industrial Machines for 10,000 years and caused very limited destruction of environment in 10,000 years.
Industrial Society used Industrial Machines and has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years....In fact Industrial Society has existed for only about 100 years....Although Industrial Revolution started 250 years ago most of the world became heavily industrialized only in the last 100 years....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed this planet.....100 years of Industrial Activity has destroyed what was not destroyed in millions of years on earth.
Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable on earth.
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More than 99.9% destruction of this planet has already happened.....Only the end of humans is yet to happen.
Most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems have already been destroyed.
Species are not lost when they become extinct....Species are lost when they get decimated....Species were lost when their populations dropped from billions and millions before industrialization to thousands and hundreds after industrialization.
There are(were) millions of species in this world....Most of them have already been decimated because Industrial Activity has destroyed most of the forests....Millions of Plant and Animal species have been decimated by Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Transportation Industry, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks, Ports and Airports..
If we calculate the decline in populations of millions of species after industrialization the combined loss will come to more than 99.9%.
Rivers, Lakes, Oceans, Atmosphere and Land have been polluted, poisoned and killed by trillions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....All Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste that has been produced by Industrial Society in 250 years after Industrial Revolution has accumulated on earth....It has not gone out of earth.
Oceans have turned acidic and warmer and there are oxygen deprived dead zones in the oceans....Fish in the oceans have been decimated by Industrial Fishing.
Billions of acres of fertile soil that was the source of food to millions of species has been killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt.
A society that has destroyed all the natural resources of the planet will also destroy itself.
After destroying biodiversity and ecosystems which sustained human life for millions of years man will not exist...It is only a matter of a few years now.
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Industrialization was the biggest crime on earth....The biggest act of killing, murder and terrorism on earth.
This planet can only sustain "Food Searching" or "Food Producing" Societies.
Hunter_Gatherer Society was sustainable.....Agrarian Society was sustainable [It destroyed very little environment as compared to Industrial Society].....The question of Industrial Society being sustainable doesn't arise.
We cannot save environment by destroying more of it.....We cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
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Promoters of Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are the biggest killers, murderers and terrorists on earth.
Development is Destruction.
“Growth Rate” – “Economy Rate” – “GDP”
These are figures of “Ecocide”.
These are figures of “Crimes against Nature”.
These are figures of “Destruction of Ecosystems”.
These are figures of “Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality”.
Politicians who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
Economists who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
IMF and World Bank which promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
Rating Agencies which promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
Industrialists who promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
All people and Institutions that promote Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP are Eco Killers, Eco Murderers and Eco Terrorists.
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This planet is home to millions of species, Not just man alone.
Millions of other species destroy environment only for food.
The lunatic Industrial Society has destroyed environment for food, clothing, shelter plus thousands of consumer goods and services.
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Billions of animals are being slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day.....Billions of fish are being killed by Industrial Fishing every day....Millions of acres of Forests are being destroyed by Industrial Activity every day....Millions of wild animals in forests are being killed by Industrial Activity every day.....Millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste is being added to environment every day....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day.... Millions of acres of Fertile Soil is being killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day....Nuclear Industry has produced millions of tonnes of Nuclear Waste which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.
Industrial Society is a curse on this planet.
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Last edited by sushil_yadav; 06-13-2013 at 10:07 AM.
Yeah, you've repeated that rant a few hundred times by now.
So for the third time, how do you propose we solve this problem and stop industrial society?
Rant a thousand and one times and to the extent of perforating somebody's eardrum. And nothing is going to happen and your high and pitchy sound goes wasted. Of course it indeed impressed me at my first reading of your thread but I did not find in your statements any way-out at all. Can you stop using modern gadgets? Can you stop using animal products? You are and of course the rest of are obsessed with the taste of things. Do you not use leather shoes and belts. You do and all your arguments are indeed good intentions but having just a good intention will not make you a man of action.
But any way I appreciate your initiative to this end.
If this statement encourages or promotes a single person to plant a tree your ideas fructify or else this becomes trash Mr. Yadav.
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Funny how people hate over-population and wish we could go back to pre-industrial numbers and yet think they have some right to be one of the remaining billion and a half or so left.
To achieve greatness you must take risks, a maxim true for all humanity no less than for the individual. For humanity to "progress" we had to open the pandora's box of science and technology. I often long for a pastoral life, a return to nature, but the inertia of development will sooner be stopped than will the earth's orbit around the sun. The world is what it is. Accept it, make the best of it, do what you can to improve it. But don't let the senselessness of it crush your soul.
“To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it.”
- Kurt Vonnegut
You are the curse on this world. Thank goodness you don't have much further to go. We'll baptise you by fire.
If we DID want to go back to pre-industrial numbers, we could do so gradually without having to resort to actually killing off people. However it would only work if every couple agreed to only have one child.
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