suicides in novels

[Grit]

I normally get bored with graphic novels, but I'll see if I can find Code Geass in the library. I assume it is like real life. I did like Victoria Roberts' After the Fall.

As far as not liking idyllic literature, did you see Sucker Punch?

CG is a tv series, I still recommend it.

I did see Sucker Punch, I thought it was trashy garbage. A lot of rediculous fight scenes, a paper thin story and lots of sex explored through abuse and slow-mo pantie shots.

[cacian]

CG is a tv series, I still recommend it.

I did see Sucker Punch, I thought it was trashy garbage. A lot of rediculous fight scenes, a paper thin story and lots of sex explored through abuse and slow-mo pantie shots.

Nah I'd say that was just a pantie add no less.
Talking of sex scenes in films in general I am surprised they do not have any condoms in full view. It is one to sell them and wanting people to use them and it is another to shoot sex scenes without the condom concept. I am surprised at the lack of consistency between reality and the works of fiction. There is one opportunity missed to teach viewers protected sex. I am not sure I get it.

[Volya]

Nah I'd say that was just a pantie add no less.
Talking of sex scenes in films in general I am surprised they do not have any condoms in full view. It is one to sell them and wanting people to use them and it is another to shoot sex scenes without the condom concept. I am surprised at the lack of consistency between reality and the works of fiction. There is one opportunity missed to teach viewers protected sex. I am not sure I get it.

It's because people don't want to see condoms.

[Grit]

Nah I'd say that was just a pantie add no less.
Talking of sex scenes in films in general I am surprised they do not have any condoms in full view. It is one to sell them and wanting people to use them and it is another to shoot sex scenes without the condom concept. I am surprised at the lack of consistency between reality and the works of fiction. There is one opportunity missed to teach viewers protected sex. I am not sure I get it.

They don't teach safe sex in movies because that'd be didactic and it wouldn't be "cool", thus it wouldn't sell.

Hollywood cares only about it's profits, not art or the quality of film nor the well being of society.

[cacian]

It's because people don't want to see condoms.

Well I did not mean for the condoms to be used explicitly but just somewhere where one can see them. Anyway why would not people want to see them?

[cacian]

They don't teach safe sex in movies because that'd be didactic and it wouldn't be "cool", thus it wouldn't sell.

Hollywood cares only about it's profits, not art or the quality of film nor the well being of society.

Not cool? Ok that is new to me. It is not cool to not use protection in my world and so I guess television is definitely a different world from mine.

[YesNo]

CG is a tv series, I still recommend it.

I did see Sucker Punch, I thought it was trashy garbage. A lot of rediculous fight scenes, a paper thin story and lots of sex explored through abuse and slow-mo pantie shots.

I couldn't find CG in the library, perhaps it is on the internet. I liked Sucker Punch. It is my example now of heroic sacrifice where one person risks losing their life for another. There are many of these. I don't consider this suicide. There's a good chance these will be profitable.

Here are two more categories of literature (including movies) that discuss suicide.

1) Metaphysical despair movies such as Melancholia. In this movie the earth is swallowed up by the rogue planet Melancholia. It was well done and probably made money, but the message was that we should all just kill ourselves and since we won't the universe is doing it for us. (Edit: I checked IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/ It budged $7 million and grossed $3 million)

2) Then there are psychic stories of communicating with a deceased person who has committed suicide. Usually these have a more positive metaphysics associated with them. I suspect they also sell well enough.

I found Code Geass on youtube. Here's the ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2WTEnevdPs

[Grit]

I couldn't find CG in the library, perhaps it is on the internet. I liked Sucker Punch. It is my example now of heroic sacrifice where one person risks losing their life for another. There are many of these. I don't consider this suicide. There's a od chance these will be profitable.

Here are two more categories of literature (including movies) that discuss suicide.

1) Metaphysical despair movies such as Melancholia. In this movie the earth is swallowed up by the rogue planet Melancholia. It was well done and probably made money, but the message was that we should all just kill ourselves and since we won't the universe is doing it for us. (Edit: I checked IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1527186/ It budged $7 million and grossed $3 million)

2) Then there are psychic stories of communicating with a deceased person who has committed suicide. Usually these have a more positive metaphysics associated with them. I suspect they also sell well enough.

I found Code Geass on youtube. Here's the ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2WTEnevdPs

Man even watching that clip starts making me emotional. Thanks for posting.

This has been a thought provoking thread for me. In regards to number two on your list, it reminds me of an idea I was very committed to recently. It was to be a story about the life of an extremely intelligent psychopath told through the eyes of his mothers ghost. I gave up on it because, get this, I thought it was too dark to sell. A bit off topic but related to the after life communication story you allude to.

I thought sucker punch had a great concept that was poorly executed although I can see why you would like it and you're certainly not alone.

FWIW, CG has a 8.9/10 rating on imdb which is pretty impressive imo, but probably a bit inflated by biased anime fanatics.

[YesNo]

Man even watching that clip starts making me emotional. Thanks for posting.

This has been a thought provoking thread for me. In regards to number two on your list, it reminds me of an idea I was very committed to recently. It was to be a story about the life of an extremely intelligent psychopath told through the eyes of his mothers ghost. I gave up on it because, get this, I thought it was too dark to sell. A bit off topic but related to the after life communication story you allude to.

I thought sucker punch had a great concept that was poorly executed although I can see why you would like it and you're certainly not alone.

FWIW, CG has a 8.9/10 rating on imdb which is pretty impressive imo, but probably a bit inflated by biased anime fanatics.

I watched the entire Avatar series at the request of my niece some years ago. I told her I liked Cameron's movie Avatar and she was setting me straight. It was interesting enough to watch the whole thing.

The idea of the mother's ghost telling her son's story might have merit. You can always revisit it later. Dark need not be bad. The problem with suicide in fiction is that it bores and may even annoy because it does not uplift the reader.

I like to emphasize how well something sells to bring literature discussions back down to earth, but I would be mainly interested in whether a story entertained enough readers.

There might be a third category of metaphysical suicide themes that would work in literature that these anime series bring to mind. It would include the Jesus story that was discussed earlier. This would be a hero who allow himself or herself to die to bring about a greater good. The sacrifice would have to have huge consequences, not just saving someone else from a burning building and losing one's own life in the process.

[Shaman_Raman]

As far as appealing to the reader, I suppose suicide through self sacrifice could work...But I feel that a reader that would be bored or turned off by suicide could still raise the question: why does self sacrifice have to necessarily be suicide? I understand the idea behind Jesus´s sacrifice, but what other huge effect could a suicide have toward the greater good?

I just have on other problem with this...in this thread, there's been a debate back and forth that suicide in literature is either distasteful or effective if well-written. If suicide is posed as a valiant, self-sacrificial act for the good of others, won't this have a worse effect on the nature of it? It's like saying there's a positive and negative form of suicide.

[YesNo]

Reconsidering it, I don't think associating suicide with self-sacrifice would work. The victim would have to be killed by unavoidable circumstances or someone else. So it wouldn't really be a suicide.

[Grit]

I think it's important to consider context when determining the viability of suicide as a good turn in a story.

If a character really, really, wanted to live and they had been established as a selfish, greedy person than suicide could, under the right circumstances, provide both a "for the better" character arc and a conclusion to the plot.

Obviously it'd need to be the last option, almost inconsiderable, but the only choice to overcome the conflict. It could actually be very uplifting, seeing a character give what they want more than anything away for the greater good.

Just my opinion, but I think suicide, like any topic, could be uplifting and entertaining if handled right. It is a more sensitive topic than most but that doesn't mean it couldn't work very well if handled properly.

[Grit]

Consider this;

Would you kill yourself if it would abolish world hunger for the rest of time?

Purely hypothetical, and not realistic, but a tough question all the same. I'd think someone choosing to make that sacrifice would be very inspiring. Not someone who wanted to kill themselves but someone who didn't, someone who always chose themselves first in the past.

[Darcy88]

Consider this;

Would you kill yourself if it would abolish world hunger for the rest of time?

Purely hypothetical, and not realistic, but a tough question all the same. I'd think someone choosing to make that sacrifice would be very inspiring. Not someone who wanted to kill themselves but someone who didn't, someone who always chose themselves first in the past.

I'd say yes. And call me naive but I think many, many others would as well.

[YesNo]

Consider this;

Would you kill yourself if it would abolish world hunger for the rest of time?

Purely hypothetical, and not realistic, but a tough question all the same. I'd think someone choosing to make that sacrifice would be very inspiring. Not someone who wanted to kill themselves but someone who didn't, someone who always chose themselves first in the past.

I remember working with a woman many years ago who announced to the rest of the team that she would kill herself if it would do humanity good. She was expressing a noble intent and she seemed sincere. Of course she never did (to my knowledge) because the if part of the statement could never be verified. I don't know if anyone around her took this seriously. I certainly didn't.

Characters such as hers could work in a story, but I think they would appear delusional to the reader if they actually committed suicide. Prior to any suicide these characters could be comic relief in the story.

A lot of the suicides that one sees are people who believe the if statement has been verified. To take the most obvious example, the Buddhist monk who immolates himself or herself thinks this will do good. What it does is puts in question Buddhism itself. Even the young man who killed himself recently after shooting up a class of 5-year-olds probably thought he was justified. He needed a lot of death for his own suicide to be visible.

So, I don't think a story would work from the perspective of such a person alone. The author would have to portray that character as deluded to not alienate the reader.