Is Celebrating Death Justifiable?

[cafolini]

I can see it now - the British team of negotiators present that to the Argentine team who then throw up their arms exclaiming of course - case closed. End of story. They'll all end up ROFLTAO and everyone will go home happy.

Simple.

The only option left the Argentineans have is to have a fascist temper tantrum of the kind they have always had and keep killing each other in liberated neighborhoods over issues of soccer. President Mujica of Uruguay understands their stupidity, mainly that of Cristina Fernandez.
What happened in the Falklands might one of these days happen in Gibraltar. A referendum over there will choose the British by over 90%.

[Paulclem]

The only option left the Argentineans have is to have a fascist temper tantrum of the kind they have always had and keep killing each other in liberated neighborhoods over issues of soccer. President Mujica of Uruguay understands their stupidity, mainly that of Cristina Fernandez.
What happened in the Falklands might one of these days happen in Gibraltar. A referendum over there will choose the British by over 90%.

You're right about the Gibraltarians. I went there in the late 80s and they were very anti-Spanish.

[Volya]

Just because it seemed such a bizarre suggestion, for us to pay for her funeral, being such a lover of the private market etc. Not I that I thought you was a troll, as I know that's not the case, just that it was a trollish sort of suggestion, almost perverse. Though maybe you were just being devil's advocate?

Sort of. As I think I mentioned I really don't know much about Thatcher and what she did, so I was wondering whether or not the funeral could be justified in any way.

[cacian]

Sort of. As I think I mentioned I really don't know much about Thatcher and what she did, so I was wondering whether or not the funeral could be justified in any way.

A funeral is justified because one is to be buried or otherwise. What is not required is such a huge demonstration of army and base and half the city cut off from everyday business for a funeral procession. The concept of it all is done without the prior consent of the population of London and beyond and that is undemocratic. It is an imposition on people whether they liked it or not and that is wrong. extremely.

[prendrelemick]

The cost is about the same as the "Unavoidable cuts" to the Arts Council's budget. So I shall be regarding it as one of those anarchic street art events, only with soldiers instead of students

[LitNetIsGreat]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ral-10-million

Interesting little datablog for the 'modest fee' of Thatcher's last two fingers up.

[kiki1982]

Yes, well, isn't she supposed to get one as an ex-PM, no matter what she did or did not do?

I do understand all the celebratory fuss about her death, but I don't find it appropriate. As if she did much in her later years. She was only of note from the time she became a leading Tory and that wasn't even from when she was elected (in the sixties? It was still black-and-white television anyway). Then she must still have been a back-bencher. So, she just did all the painful stuff that had to happen and which Germany was also doing at the time (and a few unnecessary bits to boot) in a few years and now we're going to rejoice over her death. Nobody is really worth that, although it is understandable that there are those who think it is appropriate.
Unless you are at a Germanic style wake, you should drink to someone's death. That's not nice.

I love it that the British police have said that anyone who wishes to protest at the funeral can do so, provided they just turn around in silent protest when her coffin passes. I don't think that civil British thing of standing behind the painted line because it's there is going to work tomorrow somehow. I'm definitely going to watch it on the Beeb. A historic moment like that can't be missed.

[Emil Miller]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ral-10-million

Interesting little datablog for the 'modest fee' of Thatcher's last two fingers up.

Now I know I've referenced Pro Bono Publico several times since the death of Mrs Thatcher, simply because she was the inevitable result of those who governed the UK under a system of mutual backscratching that suited its perpetraters to the detriment of the country at large. Even so, Mrs Thatcher gets only this mention in the book:

'The most important event at this time, however, was the defeat of the Conservative leader in a ballot of members to decide on the leadership, and his replacement with the first woman ever to lead a political party in Britain. Nemesis was finally at hand for those in her party who had compromised with socialism and acquiesced in consensus.'

So the two fingers up didn't only apply to the unions but also to those whom she called 'the wets' in her own party.

[Lokasenna]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...ral-10-million

Interesting little datablog for the 'modest fee' of Thatcher's last two fingers up.

I must admit, I'm always slightly suspicious of things like this - you know, the why-are-we-wasting-money-on-this-when-we-could-buy-three-billion-dialysis-machines style of argument. The extension to Tate Modern, for example, is set to cost £215 million, about £60 million of which will be coming out of tax-payers' money. Whilst I'm no great fan of modern art, I see the point/necessity of the project - but you can bet there will be plenty of people out there who think that's a titanic waste of cash that could be better spent on kitten sanctuaries/duck pond houses/windmills/schools for lobsters. The spending of public money usually generates some kind of controversy; Baroness Thatcher's funeral moreso than most.

I'm neither one way nor the other with Mrs T - I disagree with a lot of the things that she did, but there are also aspects of her government and character that are admirable. In the grand scheme of things, £10 million is not a titanic amount - about 16p per head of population, and thus a damn sight less than the 79p a great many people have spent to download a copy of 'Ding Dong! The Witch is Dead!' to get it up in the best-seller charts.

Ultimately, she was the longest serving Prime Minister of modern times, the first female Prime Minster, and a major participant in the ending of the Cold War - like her or loathe her, these are factors that require some measure of recognition.

[WICKES]

But as the day wore on, I began to find it increasingly ghoulish how certain groups were greeting the death of frail, demented old woman with almost seraphic joy - applause at the NUS conference, street parties in Brixton and Glasgow, the leader of the Durham Miners declaring it 'the happiest day of my life.'

Consequently, I ended up engaging in several FB debates on the subject, and was suprised at the manner in which several of my friends, who are intelligent and civilized people, were nevertheless declaring this behaviour as appropriate.

Yes...I share your distaste. I'm no fan of Thatcherism (and I don't know how anyone interested in the arts can be), but I am no fan of ugly, crude, graceless behaviour either. I despise the grinning morons who held street parties just as much as I despise Thatcherites.

[Paulclem]

This has been an interesting thread. I suppose it will decline rapidly after she's interred, unless we have civil disobediance that re-ignites it again.

Anyone going out tomorrow?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Yes I am also distrustful of the why-are-we-wasting-money-on-this sort of argument/article, (usually found in some publications such as the Mail) but to me 10 million is still 10 million and for someone who raped the state and didn't believe in society it is one final insult that the state has to pay up. I just think it is in utter distaste. A quiet private funeral, in both senses of the word, is what should have happened, not the flag waving parading that we will see tomorrow when at least half of the people in the country detested her and her government.

Anyone going out tomorrow?

To protest?

Edit:

Oh and the 16p per person argument doesn’t hold any ground with me. I detest and abhor the fact that a single penny is being taken from my tax contributions to bury any politician never mind her. You might as well ask the Jews to contribute a small ‘modest sum’ to erect a plague of Hitler (after all like him or loathe him he was a powerful leader) the actual sum is completely immaterial. The fact that there is any sum to the public purse is in my opinion a total disgrace.

[Lokasenna]

Yes I am also distrustful of the why-are-we-wasting-money-on-this sort of argument/article, (usually found in some publications such as the Mail) but to me 10 million is still 10 million and for someone who raped the state and didn't believe in society it is one final insult that the state has to pay up. I just think it is in utter distaste. A quiet private funeral, in both senses of the word, is what should have happened, not the flag waving parading that we will see tomorrow when at least half of the people in the country detested her and her government.



To protest?

Edit:

Oh and the 16p per person argument doesn’t hold any ground with me. I detest and abhor the fact that a single penny is being taken from my tax contributions to bury any politician never mind her. You might as well ask the Jews to contribute a small ‘modest sum’ to erect a plague of Hitler (after all like him or loathe him he was a powerful leader) the actual sum is completely immaterial. The fact that there is any sum to the public purse is in my opinion a total disgrace.

Fair enough. I was simply questioning the validity of that particular kind of argument, not the strength of feeling behind your sentiments!

[Paulclem]

To protest?

Yes - but I jest. I wouldn't protest at anyone's funeral.

The tedium has begun. My daily dose of porrige and BBC news has been interrupted by those interminable special programmes reporting on someone's arrival and departure - the Pope, The Queen and today Mrs T's burial. So we have shots or reporters standing outside on the route telling you things like - the flags are at half mast, people are having their breakfast blah blah blah. Rubbish.

[kasie]

.......Anyone going out tomorrow?

Definitely. All day. As far away from a television as I can get. I think a private funeral followed at a later date by a Memorial Service would have been quite sufficient. It's enough for most politicians. I can't help feeling someone, somewhere, is making political hay out of what should be a private, family event.